Coxsackie B4 - kill ‘em all

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I’ve knew it from the beginning that I have it. No it’s confirmed with the Neutralizationtest.
Thing is: I find it very confusing how to treat it effectively. Joshua wants to kill it with Andrographis.

I have to say that I’m poor and can’t afford flying to Argentina and buy Ampligen or have multiple Interferon infusions. But I want to get rid of it.

Any ideas or better experiences are welcome.
Btw: In Germany you can’t get Dr. Chias Equilibrium

Thank you very much,
 

Judee

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You've probably seen this thread already but @Hip has a list on here (post #8) of some things.

(BTW, @Hip, could you put this list on your about page if/when you have a chance? It may be be there already but every time I've looked I can't seem to find it.)

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/enteroviruses-revisted.14478/

Also some members have been talking about entroviruses here but from what I can understand it's very difficult to deal with: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...-critical-review-oneal-and-hanson-2021.84191/:(

Can you get just oxymatrine or Ku Shen there? This company ships international but seem to indicate they will tell you the cost first maybe because it can be costly. :( :( (Of course, the supplement itself is kinda costly. Sorry.)

The andrographis might be a good idea too. Lost my bottle of it so ordered another yesterday.

Edit: @JohnnyMinnesota99 is in Germany, I believe and using the oxymatrine. You could ask him where he gets it maybe.
 
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I would default to the oxymatrine first if you can get it and then use Joshua's plan as a back up but that's just me.

edit: Plus, still start low and go slow on the oxymatrine
That's Janina an my plan because Equilibrium is hard ghly expensive... 100$ per month, 30$ for shipping.
 
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I read that oxymatrine is not recommended if you have autoimmune diseases. Unfortunately Martin has psoriasis, so I think it shouldn't be the first choice.

I searched for other possible treatments for B4 and found these so far:
- umifenovir
- fluoxetine
- valsartan
- oseltamivir
- lamivudine
- inosine
- tenofovir (but it looks like it has some serious side effects)
- dihydroquercetin
- ribavirin
- Aegle Marmelos
- raoulic acid
- epimedium
- Azadirachta indica
- nicotinamide
- spirulina platensis
- fucoidan
- lactobacillus plantarum

Has anyone tried one of these (with an B4 infection) and got good results? (Maybe @Hip ?)

I wish there would be any news regarding rega compound a and 17.
 

pamojja

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Has anyone tried one of these (with an B4 infection) and got good results?
Though without confirmed infection, I use Ayurvedic herbs to good results. Individually they are taken at very high doses, but in combination through their synergy at multiple pathways always at relatively low doses. So instead of relying on anyone alone in very high doses, I personally would rather use a combination, for example of all Ayurvedic herbs mentioned above: Andrographis (Kalmegh), Aegle Marmelos (Bael) and Azadirachta indica (Neem). Each of these individual herbs anyway will also have non-responders, and finding an effective partial combination this way faster and more like. If possible as fresh dry powders (have up to half year the highest potency), as their extract, or for a futher punch even a combination of both again.
 

pamojja

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how did you know to try those herbs
Don't know if I understand your question? How did I know to try those herbs? Well, immatiate motivation was desperation from a chronic bronchitis lasting already 1 year. So I thought it wise to seek sunshine and sea-breeze on an South-Indian beach. And there came in contact with all Ayurvedic herbs. Then I read books about them and tried them all.

The bronchitis went, later was diagnosed as COPD stage 1, but remained asymptomatic. Later was told on my yearly checkup it improved that much, no need to monitor it further.
 
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Hip

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I read that oxymatrine is not recommended if you have autoimmune diseases. Unfortunately Martin has psoriasis, so I think it shouldn't be the first choice.

I searched for other possible treatments for B4 and found these so far:
- umifenovir
- fluoxetine
- valsartan
- oseltamivir
- lamivudine
- inosine
- tenofovir (but it looks like it has some serious side effects)
- dihydroquercetin
- ribavirin
- Aegle Marmelos
- raoulic acid
- epimedium
- Azadirachta indica
- nicotinamide
- spirulina platensis
- fucoidan
- lactobacillus plantarum

Has anyone tried one of these (with an B4 infection) and got good results? (Maybe @Hip ?)

Most of these will not work in vivo, unfortunately. They are only antiviral in vitro.

Over the years I compiled a long list of supplements, drugs and off-label drugs which have in vitro antiviral effects against enteroviruses linked to ME/CFS (coxsackievirus B and echovirus).

Later when I learnt how to calculate whether these substances might work in vivo, it turned out that nearly all of them failed to show an antiviral effect in vivo, sadly.



However, oxymatrine, tenofovir, Epivir, and inosine are used by Dr Chia to treat enterovirus infection. The first two can sometimes be particularly effective, and for some lucky ME/CFS patients, they can lead to major improvements.

Dr Chia says that oxymatrine is not advised for ME/CFS patients with autoimmunity:
Autoimmunity and Oxymatrine: (Dr. Chia suggested that patients with autoimmune tendencies should not take Oxymatrine. )

Autoimmune tendency means a strong family history of autoimmune diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, autoimmune thyroiditis (especially Grave’s disease), multiple sclerosis, and if the patients have joint pain with positive rheumatoid factor and persistently positive ANA.

With the use of other potent Chinese herbs and oxymatrine over the last several years, we have seen two patients develop rheumatoid arthritis (presented at the Reno meeting and London IiME, London meeting).
More info: here.
 
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Judee

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I read that oxymatrine is not recommended if you have autoimmune diseases. Unfortunately Martin has psoriasis, so I think it shouldn't be the first choice.
I have lupus and hashimoto's in my family. I had very high hashimoto titers - anti-TPO & TgAb on a blood test. (My pcp still would not say I had hashi's though. :( )

However, I started the oxymatrine out of desperation in the beginning of October of 2019 and have used it daily ever since.

I don't think I have or am developing RA but I haven't been retested for that either. I just have no symptoms of what I think would be happening if I did. I've always had some joint pain which I think is caused by hyperjoint mobility issues. That hasn't gotten worse. My joints are not swollen at all. They just hurt like they always have.

Anyway, it's Martin's and your decision. You and he have to do what you think best for him.

I would be careful with inosine if he has the genes that naturally make more IL-6.

I talk about it in this post. If you can, read a few posts up too to get the full context of what I'm talking about. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...cmafplus-com-in-hong-kong.79370/#post-2275989

That may be why some people do really well on it and others don't. (shrug)
 
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I have lupus and hashimoto's in my family. I had very high hashimoto titers - anti-TPO & TgAb on a blood test. (My pcp still would not say I had hashi's though. :( )

However, I started the oxymatrine out of desperation in the beginning of October of 2019 and have used it daily ever since.

I don't think I have or am developing RA but I haven't been retested for that either. I just have no symptoms of what I think would be happening if I did. I've always had some joint pain which I think is caused by hyperjoint mobility issues. That hasn't gotten worse. My joints are not swollen at all. They just hurt like they always have.

Anyway, it's Martin's and your decision. You and he have to do what you think best for him.



I would be careful with inosine if he has the genes that naturally make more IL-6.

I talk about it in this post. If you can, read a few posts up too to get the full context of what I'm talking about. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...cmafplus-com-in-hong-kong.79370/#post-2275989
Do you know a good source for Oxymatrine?
 

Judee

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Do you know a good source for Oxymatrine?
I have tried three kinds: The Alternative Medicine Solutions, The Tiger Brand, and Nature's health Ku Shen.

I get the biggest bump from the Alternative Medicine Solutions brand and buy from here: https://alternativemedicinesolution.com/oxymatrine/ (same product price as the other one I posted yesterday but check with them on shipping).

When I do the financial math the Tiger Brand and this location had the cheapest prices for me: https://www.acuatlanta.net/white-tiger-oxymatrine-84-tablets-1-gram-p-22021.html

I think they also do international shipping but check with them first esp for the cost of that.

I also felt something with their product though as I said maybe not as strongly as the Alternative Medicine but still good.

Wish @JohnnyMinnesota99 would input here too as I said earlier he also is in Germany and I believe he is using the Alternative Medicine brand so may know of cheaper places you could get it from there.

Edit: I may even switch back to the Tiger brand to save money now too.
 
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