COVID Vaccine Only Provides Transient Protection

[gbells]

MODERATOR'S NOTE: THE FIRST FOUR POSTS IN THIS THREAD WERE MOVED FROM 'HAD MY FIRST COVID VACCINE JANUARY 18TH'

After learning that the antibodies from covid vaccination only last eight months at best, with 10% of the patients going unprotected, I feel like the public has been given false hope with the idea that these vaccinations are going to end the epidemic. Most likely people will get tired of the masks and isolation, there will be enough economic damage and people will stop doing all of this. Yes we have to keep the hospitals open but the best strategy will be for people to use low inflammation nutrition and vitamin D3 to keep the death rate as low as possible (about 1%) and get back to normal. Vaccination isn't going to be a silver bullet and elderly people should get immunized if there is a high risk of exposure (like hepatitis) but wasting huge amounts of money on vaccinations and shutdowns isn't going to stop covid at this stage when so many people are infected. Large numbers of people will develop immunity anyway just from being exposed to it a few times. Covid is going to end up being one of the expected diseases. The main thing is if we are disseminating information that allows people to minimize the effects of the disease. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53188847

I probably will skip the vaccine since the benefit is so transient.

 

[Cipher]

only last three months

Do you have a source for the claim that all COVID-19 vaccines only give immunity for 3 months? When it comes to the Moderna vaccine for example the antibody levels remained high for at least 3 months. The immunity could last much, much longer.

Durability of Responses after SARS-CoV-2 mRNA-1273 Vaccination

 

[gbells]

Check this article which states that you get 8 months at best. It's looks similar to natural immunity. 10% of the patients won't even get enough benefit for it to be effective.

However, sustained antibody counts are not the case in the 56-70 and 71+ age groups. In these subsets, the neutralizing antibody counts fall anywhere between 50 and 75 percent. This suggests that in these age groups, the duration of neutralizing antibodies from the Moderna vaccine will be relatively short, potentially less than a year. That is particularly troubling as these are the age groups most affected by severe Covid-19. It may well be that the levels of antibodies after three months, if maintained, are sufficient to protect these age groups, but it is unlikely they will continue to protect if levels fall still further.

The Moderna Vaccine’s Antibodies May Not Last As Long As We Hoped. William A. Haseltine. Forbes. Dec 22, 2020

According to Shane Crotty, PhD, a professor at the La Jolla Institute of Immunology who co-led the study, his team measured all four components of immune memory:

• antibodies
• memory B cells
• helper T cells
• killer T cells

This is the largest study ever for any acute infection that has measured all four of these components, he said.

The researchers found that these four factors persisted for at least 8 months following infection with the virus.

This is important because this shows that the body can “remember” the SARS-CoV-2 virus. If it encounters the virus again, the memory B cells can quickly gear up and produce antibodies to fight the re-infection.

Those who have recovered from COVID-19 could have immunity against reinfection for months, or perhaps even years, the authors said.



Prior to this latest study, Rodda said that work had been done by her research team, as well as others, showing that antibodies against the virus are maintained for at least 3 months.

https://www.healthline.com/health-n...hat-we-currently-know-about-COVID-19-immunity

 

[Cipher]

Check this article which states that you get 8 months at best. It's looks similar to natural immunity. 10% of the patients won't even get enough benefit for it to be effective.

Again, when they say at least 8 months (regarding the post-infection immunity), it means it could last longer, not "at best". Also, you might find this quote from the paper they talk about interesting:

Immunological memory to SARS-CoV-2 assessed for up to 8 months after infection

SARS-CoV-2 T cell memory at 6 months has also now been reported in another study (63). Notably, the durability of a fraction of the yellow fever virus-specific memory CD8+ T cells possessed an estimated t1/2 of 485 days by deuterium labeling (56). Using different approaches, the long-term durability of memory CD4+ T cells to smallpox, over a period of many years, was an estimated t1/2 of ~10 years (61, 64), which is also consistent with recent detection of SARS-CoV-T cells 17 years after the initial infection (65). These data suggest that T cell memory might reach a more stable plateau, or slower decay phase, beyond the first 8 months post-infection.

The Pfizer vaccine for example induces a strong T-cell response in addition to the neutralizing antibodies.
No one knows how long the immunity from the different vaccines lasts, but one can't conclude that all COVID-19 vaccines only give short-lived immunity with the current available data.

 

[andyguitar]

10% of the patients won't even get enough benefit for it to be effective.

But useful for the other 90%. And It may stop the spread. And end the lockdowns. And prevent long Covid.

 

[Hufsamor]

Many people are already getting flu vaccine every year.
So if it turns out that people will need to get two vaccinations each year?
At least in this part of the world, I don’t think it’s a problem at all.

 

[andyguitar]

Not a problem in the UK either.

 

[starlily88]

But useful for the other 90%. And It may stop the spread. And end the lockdowns. And prevent long Covid.

It is speculated that the 5% from Pfizer and Moderna vaccine that don't "take" - they will still have some protection - if they get COVID, that 5% should get milder case, so far this is what the trials have shown.
Pfizer has a 95% effective rate, Moderna has 94.1% effective rate.

 

[starlily88]

Check this article which states that you get 8 months at best. It's looks similar to natural immunity. 10% of the patients won't even get enough benefit for it to be effective.

The people that have done trials 1,2 and 3 haven't gone past the 8 month mark right now - so it's too soon to tell. More than likely all COVID vaccines will have to have "boosters" - the virologists don't know yet if this will be a yearly Vaccine just like the flu.
I took the Jonas Salk Vaccine shot and booster, and then one year later my pediatrician told my Mom to bring us back in -- we then ate the Sabin sugar cubes with pink in them - to further innoculate us against Polio. FDR was not so lucky - he got polio before Jonas Salk and Sabine did 2 vaccines - which did indeed protect us from getting polio - so this is a work in progress - no conclusion can be made until more time has passed with the human volunteers all over the world.

 

[gbells]

But useful for the other 90%. And It may stop the spread. And end the lockdowns. And prevent long Covid.

And especially the food industry for keeping Americans buying unhealthy beef and commercial glyfosate laden meats and grains.

I seriously doubt that anyone would bother to vaccinate against a disease that has a 1% death rate for their age group.

 

[gbells]

Again, when they say at least 8 months (regarding the post-infection immunity), it means it could last longer, not "at best". Also, you might find this quote from the paper they talk about interesting:

Immunological memory to SARS-CoV-2 assessed for up to 8 months after infection


The Pfizer vaccine for example induces a strong T-cell response in addition to the neutralizing antibodies.
No one knows how long the immunity from the different vaccines lasts, but one can't conclude that all COVID-19 vaccines only give short-lived immunity with the current available data.

I'm not going to speculate that the protection may last longer. She me some data. So far the data is that for 10% of people it does wear off, exactly like natural immunity, and for a good chunk they never develop it anyway and must relay on the innate immune response anyway so why should we suppose that vaccination is doing something different? Antibodies are antibodies.

If you are eating low inflammation, low glyfosate your risk of death is only 1%. That's not high. Moreover, if you are a ME patient with viruses you probably can't even make the antibodies due to EBV nagalase blocking antibody production unless you are using curcumin and do a course of GcMAF for four months. I did that and even post unconfirmed covid have no antibodies as of now.

But the bottom line is that you get the most benefit from low inflammation, low glyfosate nutrition (reduces death risk by 90%) and are able to clear covid without antibodies (natural immunity) so why risk thrombosis death for a 1% benefit unless the death risk is higher (elderly)? I don't think the cost to benefit is enough.

 

[Tammy]

But useful for the other 90%. And It may stop the spread.

The vaccine doesn't actually stop the spread of the virus.

 

[Hufsamor]

The vaccine doesn't actually stop the spread of the virus.

It might
They just don’t know yet

Pfizer and Moderna, the companies that developed the vaccines authorized in the U.S. so far, say their vaccines are about 95% effective at preventing people from getting sick with Covid symptoms. But there's not enough evidence yet on whether the vaccines also prevent asymptomatic infection and transmission.11. jan. 2021
www.wsj.com › ... › Your Health

 

[starlily88]

The vaccine doesn't actually stop the spread of the virus.

The vaccine does stop one from getting COVID. And if enough Americans get it, there is Herd Immunity, which does in fact stop the spread of the COVID Sars-2 Virus.
That is the point of a vaccine - when all babies had smallpox vaccine - it stopped smallpox in the world.
When children got the Polio vaccine - meaning everyone - this also stopped Polio from spreading.
Same with Measles Vaccine - it stopped Measles in our country - until now, when parents refuse to give
kid Measles vaccine - it has now started a small spread.

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

The vaccine does stop one from getting COVID. And if enough Americans get it, there is Herd Immunity, which does in fact stop the spread of the COVID Sars-2 Virus.

That's incorrect.

COVID-19 Vaccine: What You Need to Know

If I get a coronavirus vaccination, do I still have to wear a mask? Physical distance?

Yes. It may take time for everyone who wants a COVID-19 vaccination to get one. A vaccine that is 95% effective means that about 1 out of 20 people who get it may not have protection from getting the illness.

Also, while the vaccine may prevent you from getting sick, it is unknown at this time if you can still carry and transmit the virus to others. That is why, until more is understood about how well the vaccine works, continuing with precautions such as mask-wearing and physical distancing will be important.

 

[Hip]

As it turns out, the vaccines performed better than expected, and they do also substantially reduce the transmission of the virus, by more than 80%. Though the new delta variant may spread more easily, because it is a more transmissible variant.

See this article from Nature: COVID vaccines slash viral spread – but Delta is an unknown.

The Nature article concludes:

Delta’s increased infectiousness could mean that the proportion of people in a population who need to be vaccinated to bring the pandemic under control will be larger than would have been required with earlier variants.

 

[hapl808]

Vaccines like this do not protect against infection or death - that was not the purpose. Death was not even a primary endpoint in any of the trials I've seen as they did not have enough incidences.

The purpose of the vaccines was to reduce symptomatic infections in a population. And 95% efficacy does not mean that 1 out of 20 aren't protected. It means that in similar populations engaging in similar behavior, the a 95% effectiveness which translates to a 20 fold reduction in symptomatic cases in the vaccinated group compared to the unvaccinated group.

This is an important distinction as vaccination cannot tell an individual anything about their protection level. It is studied in large groups (hence the 40k person trials) and shows reductions in incidences of whatever is the primary endpoint (lab confirmed infection, symptomatic lab confirmed infection, mortality, etc).

That's my understanding.

 

[Hip]

Death was not even a primary endpoint in any of the trials I've seen as they did not have enough incidences.

Yes that's true, the vaccine clinical trial endpoints were the ability to reduce symptomatic cases, and reduce severe disease and hospitalization cases.

The following table from this article details how the various COVID vaccines met these endpoints:

However, since death from COVID normally ensues after hospitalization, if the vaccine is shown in these trials to reduce hospitalization, then we can assume it will automatically also reduce deaths.

And real world data in studies conducted after the vaccine rollout shows they reduce death.