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Could bacterial overgrowth or leaky gut cause sore sensitive tired muscles ?

Tsukareta

Senior Member
Messages
150
When my MCS started a few months ago after becoming gradually more sensitive to chemicals until I reached a crisis where my brain felt really inflammed and I became spontaneously hypersensitive to the air in the spare bedroom, I started also developing food sensitivities and flushing reactions where my face and neck felt burning and turned red, often after eating certain things.

I can't remember if there was a pattern regards which foods caused it but I started thinking maybe I had histamine intolerance, or MCAS, or SIBO, so I tried going low sugar, low histamine, at the start I weighed 105KG, I quickly lost weight.

I noticed I was reacting to Wheetabix and milk, on one occasion flushing badly but also coughing, had to go in the garden to fresh air. Started avoiding wheat. Couldn't eat much strong cheese but seemed ok with mozarella. Did a 'food intolerance test' a few weeks later and it showed borderline to wheat, but milk was the highest score, 100, garlic and apple were also high. It was strange because i'd been drinking glasses of just milk to test my reaction and was ok, but on another occasion a chocolate bar caused a stomach ache and muscle aches / weakness temporarily.

Started avoiding milk, had lost at least 10KG weight by this point. Now coming up to more recently, march wasn't a great month and I felt tired often and brain was clouded and dysfunctional, late march I was eating a lot of cereals, some had barely in ( gluten ), cutting that out helped some of my worse brain issues. Still was eating a lot of coco pops ( rice based with cocoa and a little sugary ) with soya milk, seemed ok on this food. Was down to about 90KG at this point.

In the past couple of weeks I noticed my stomach was slowing down, I wasn't going to the toilet everyday but rather every 2 or 3 days, now its maybe twice a week. I was constantly fatigued and sensitive to minor stress e.g. video games, but it wasn't PEM, I tried small amounts of activated charcoal and it radically improved my health, fatigue cleared up rapidly and my brain felt nearer how it did a year or 2 ago. My PEM was greatly reduced as was the accompanying dehydration. Sadly overdoing it with going out / muscle strain caused my leg muscles to become very sore and the food reactions came back, I reacted to chicken with face flushing. I went onto a fruit and vegetable diet for a few days to recover, but my stomach felt more sensitive. I'm back on normal foods now almost, but I am down to around 85KG. Digestion is slow, muscles still sore even my arms now, just from using computer makes them sore, this happened in 2016 when i also had food sensitivities, I had severe cfs then but it doesn't feel like that now.

I suspect my flushing and food sensitivities are due to leaky gut, but I don't know about the exercise reactions and sore muscles ( new ). Any ideas ? anyone experienced similar ?
 

GreenEdge

Senior Member
Messages
602
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Muscle soreness is caused by inflammation. The more you remove foods that cause inflammation the more sensitive your body will become to the plant toxins and anti-nutrients that cause it. Your body has learned what chemical is causing it harm and is now sensitive to that. This helps you identify and eliminate other foods that contain it. Allergy to toxins is normal.

Plants can't run and hide so they defend themselves using chemicals. Phytic acid is one of a number of “anti-nutrients” found in grains and legumes. Seeds are plant babies (the most defended part of any plant); the defense chemicals are saying, "If you eat me, I will make you feel bad".

I follow the lion diet (the ultimate elimination diet). If I cheat and indulge in coffee or chocolate, I will get sore muscles due to inflammation caused by the phytic acid found in coffee or chocolate. Never again. :headslap:

Dr Anthony Chaffee MD has followed the lion diet for 10 years, he talks about coffee and muscle soreness here. After watching that segment, watch entire interview from the beginning.
 

Tsukareta

Senior Member
Messages
150
This week I mostly ate grapes, pineapple, carrots, parsnips, slices of beef, I thought to eat stuff that I don't usually eat and that hopefully wouldn't feed any overgrowth of bad bacteria ( carbs / sugar ). I have started reintroducing the foods I was normally eating before I reacted to chicken, thats mainly potato, rice, different types of fish, eggs, sometimes bacon. I was ok with salmon and eggs but I have gotten a sort of headache now after eating carrots and tuna, which is strange, i've been fine with carrots all week. I did eat a packet of crisps a couple of hours ago to see my reaction to a small amount of carbs, but I wouldn't expect it to be still affecting me especially such a small amount ( 24g ). Leg muscles were sore due to exercise and took longer than normal to recover, but my arms don't usually flare up like this from typing and using the computer, but it coincides with a time when my stomach is the unhealthiest.
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,749
Location
Alberta
which is strange, i've been fine with carrots all week.

My ME changes my responses to foods every now and then. I used to be fine with onions, but now have to avoid them. I was find with potatoes and tomatoes, then intolerant, then okay again, then intolerant again. After years of high fibre, I became intolerant of that. So, getting an intolerance for a food isn't unusual with ME.

Also, some foods have relatively high concentrations of some component, such as beta-carotene, so you might be intolerant of a rate of intake, rather than the component at lower intakes. You'll have to experiment to see whether each food, or component, is:

safe at any level
safe at some level
unsafe at any level


Then there's the "I know it will make me feel worse tomorrow, but I really, really have a craving for <whatever>, so I'm going to enjoy it knowing the cost." :yum: ... :pem:
 

GreenEdge

Senior Member
Messages
602
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Allow me to offer my unique perspective from someone not addicted to processed foods because I haven't eaten processed foods in ages, I now find eating any processed food will give me a stomach ache.

Processed foods - I don't have its addictive chemicals in my body so I'm not drawn to them, I don't even see it as food. I am over processed foods and that human kibble you call confectionery. :happy-cat:

I reacted to chicken
No, you reacted to the stuffing or the rancid vegetable oil the chicken was cooked in.

I have gotten a sort of headache now after eating carrots and tuna, which is strange,
Your brain got nutrients it needs from that tuna. The "sort of headache" is a side effect of repair processes at work.

i've been fine with carrots all week.
The antinutrient contents of Daucus carota and Cucumis sativus were also found to be as follows: Oxalate (241.67 and 142.45 mg/100 g), saponin (0.22 and 0.91%), alkaloids (2.85 and 2.23%), tannins (329.03 and 254.45 mg/100 g), cyanide (4.01 and 3.03 mg/100 g) and phytate (616.41 and 349.62 mg/100 g).

I did eat a packet of crisps a couple of hours ago
Read the ingredients listed on the packet. Highly processed carbs and a massive load of flavor enhances...
 

Tsukareta

Senior Member
Messages
150
I heard about the phytic thing elsewhere since you mentioned it so I think its interesting, I never really had noticeable issues with foods until I got CFS though and even then it wasn't all the time. There was a new article by Cort on the health rising website that I think could directly relate to my problem, supposedly its a new discovery about how muscles affect the stomach or vice versa, I didn't have time to read it carefully yet, its been unusually windy here and it seemed to cause more mold in the air in the room im living in currently.

I'm not sure whether I should worry yet but I haven't been to the toilet for 6 or 7 days now, I didn't eat much last week though as I was on vegetables, but i've been eating more in the past few days and I would have expected it to have had an effect by now. I took 5ml of lactulose 4 or 5 times in the past couple of days and it didn't change the situation, took Dulcolax 6 hours ago and it didn't have a noticeable effect yet, so I took another one recently. I don't know at what point its worth seeking medical help, this has never been a problem for me before.
 

GreenEdge

Senior Member
Messages
602
Location
Brisbane, Australia
I'm not sure whether I should worry yet but I haven't been to the toilet for 6 or 7 days now... I took 5ml of lactulose 4 or 5 times in the past couple of days and it didn't change the situation, took Dulcolax 6 hours ago and it didn't have a noticeable effect yet, so I took another one recently.
Are you drinking enough water? Those products won't work without enough water. Sometimes a hard stool can push on my bladder causing more frequent urination, leading to more dehydration. I find sipping hot water helps.

If I'm desperate, I'll end up sticking a wet finger up my anus to pull some poo out (to help get things moving again) and often find a spiky painful to move poo near the anus. Once that blockage is removed, it usually resolves itself (else repeat once each day).

I don't know at what point its worth seeking medical help, this has never been a problem for me before.
If you take yourself to ER, they will be able to assist you. One method is a pill they place inside your anus and wait a while for it work. The pill will soften the hard head of the stool allowing you to then pass it.
 
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Tsukareta

Senior Member
Messages
150
the problem was more that the food wasn't moving down through the stomach, it wasn't even getting near the exit if that makes sense, I could feel that there was nothing in the area/s where it would be, it wasn't until a few hours after I took the second bisocodyl ( stimulant laxative ) then drank a strong coffee that I was able to go the toilet, then over 12 hours later when I was asleep I got up to go to the toilet again. When I woke up in the morning I was desperate to go and then it was diarrhoea like. There was never the typical problem you describe where it gets too hard to pass, I had that issue last summer though when my new issues started and dehydration was more of a frequent problem. So the bisocodyl is supposed to take 6 to 12 hours to work and it seemed like it took about 24 hours to have full effect.

I got my results back from basic blood test ( all the doctor would offer me despite me being the most ill i've been since my first year of ME/CFS ), they said thyroid is now slightly low, vitamin D is HIGH ( supplement ) and calcium is HIGH whereas when they tests around 6 months ago it was normal. So they are confused as to why my calcium level is high, i'm not eating dairy or taking calcium supplements, my diet is quite restricted, though I was consuming some soya milk 2 or 3 weeks ago.