Coronavirus Vaccine(s)

[Rufous McKinney]

it was a great starting point for my research on the COVID vaccines.

Here is some info on flu vaccines generally and looking at folks with an autoimmune disorder....

So there could be some- adverse effects in a subset of certain individuals with a disorder they examined and more study needed.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22235050/

 

[Gingergrrl]

Thank you so much for summarizing this!

No problem! It was very helpful for me to watch the video and it helped me to formulate the issues re: the COVID vaccines that I need to research.

I am hoping that Dr. Nancy Klimas will comment on the safety of these various vaccines for those of us who have immune irregularities. Do you, by chance, know any of her patients? Or perhaps your doctor could contact her? She is uniquely qualified to give input here.

Unfortunately I do not personally know any patients of Dr. Klimas (but I agree that she would be uniquely qualified to discuss this issue). Actually, I think @Belbyr from PR was seeing Dr. Klimas (but I am not sure if he is still seeing her)?

Here is some info on flu vaccines generally and looking at folks with an autoimmune disorder.... So there could be some- adverse effects in a subset of certain individuals with a disorder they examined and more study needed.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22235050/

Thank you for this link @Rufous McKinney and it definitely seems that there are adverse effects from the flu shot for patients with autoimmunity. I currently have a positive ANA titer again (1:160, speckled pattern) after having a negative ANA for a while from my treatment. In my case, I have not had a return of symptoms in spite of my ANA titer being positive again (and the ANA is a vague test and none of my treatment was based on the positive ANA vs. on specific autoantibodies and symptoms).

But the ANA titer does show an overall level of autoimmunity and I was disappointed that mine is positive again. I feel that I can only push my luck so far and that the COVID vaccine might be the tipping point that I would never recover from. As soon as I get a chance to do more research, I will post anything that I find here in this thread in case it is useful for anyone else.

 

[Strawberry]

Someone mentioned egg allergy, which makes me wonder if anyone knows how this is grown? Egg? Rodent? Monkey? Pork? Or is that old fashioned?

Definitely autoimmune aspect needs to be strongly researched.

@Gingergrrl so nice to hear you are finally normal! That was a very long road for you.

 

[ljimbo423]

Someone mentioned egg allergy, which makes me wonder if anyone knows how this is grown? Egg? Rodent? Monkey? Pork? Or is that old fashioned?

It looks like they don't grow the viruses to make the new messenger RNA vaccines. They just use a genetic code from the spike on the virus. So they are using genetic engineering instead of growing viruses!

Traditionally, making vaccines required growing viruses or pieces of viruses — often in giant vats of cells or, like most flu shots, in chicken eggs — and then purifying them before next steps in brewing shots.



The mRNA approach is radically different. It starts with a snippet of genetic code that carries instructions for making proteins. Pick the right virus protein to target, and the body turns into a mini vaccine factory.

“Instead of growing up a virus in a 50,000-liter drum and inactivating it, we could deliver RNA and our bodies make the protein, which starts the immune response,” said Dr. Drew Weissman, an immunology and vaccine researcher at the University of Pennsylvania.

Reference

 

[Strawberry]

Oh that’s cool! Thanks!

 

[Strawberry]

Ok this article is plenty for me.

https://www.livescience.com/pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-allergic-reactions-uk.html

The U.K.'s Regulatory Agency is advising people with a history of "significant" allergic reactions to avoid Pfizer's coronavirus vaccine, after two National Health Service members developed severe allergic reactions to it on Tuesday (Dec. 8).

"As is common with new vaccines the MHRA (Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency) have advised on a precautionary basis that people with a significant history of allergic reactions do not receive this vaccination after two people with a history of significant allergic reactions responded adversely yesterday," Stephen Powis, the national medical director for England's National Health Service said in a statement on Wednesday (Dec. 9).

Both workers have a history of severe allergies and carry adrenaline auto injectors (such as EpiPens) around with them, according to The Guardian. Shortly after receiving the vaccine, both NHS workers developed anaphylaxis-like symptoms, or severe allergic reactions, but have recovered after receiving treatment.

edit to tag @Gingergrrl

 

[Gingergrrl]

Someone mentioned egg allergy, which makes me wonder if anyone knows how this is grown? Egg? Rodent? Monkey? Pork? Or is that old fashioned?

It seems like there are a few different types of COVID vaccines (at different stages of the FDA approval process) that are created in different ways and have different mechanisms of action. It seems like some are the messenger RNA vaccines, some are adenovirus vector vaccines and some are traditional protein based vaccines. Unfortunately I don't know what this any of this means but I intend to find out!

Definitely autoimmune aspect needs to be strongly researched.

This is my biggest concern and I want to understand which type of COVID vaccine (all things considered) is the safest for someone with known autoimmunity. I am very concerned about Guillain-Barre and also about re-triggering all of the autoantibodies that caused my POTS and neuromuscular weakness.

@Gingergrrl so nice to hear you are finally normal! That was a very long road for you.

Thank you @Strawberry! I wish I could say that I was "normal" (whatever that even means? ) or that I was back to pre-illness levels but it is not the case. I consider myself in remission but it still feels fragile and that one wrong move (like a COVID vaccine) that screws with the immune system could end it all and put me back to square one. My illness had so many different cumulative triggers (Fluoroquinolone toxicity, severe mono/EBV & post-viral syndrome, toxic mold in prior rental, etc) that all ended in autoimmunity & MCAS. This vaccine terrifies me especially not having the info that I need to make a fully informed decision when I (most likely) decline it.

It looks like they don't grow the viruses to make the new messenger RNA vaccines. They just use a genetic code from the spike on the virus. So they are using genetic engineering instead of growing viruses!

@ljimbo423 Do you understand the differences between the different vaccine types (mRNA vaccines, adenovirus vector vaccines, and traditional protein vaccines)? I am using the terminology from the video in an earlier post and assume it is accurate. Do you know which type of vaccine might be the most likely to cause anaphylaxis or an autoimmune reaction?

Ok this article is plenty for me.

https://www.livescience.com/pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-allergic-reactions-uk.html

I totally agree and several friends sent me links today about this issue! It turns out that Pfizer's clinical trials excluded anyone w/history of allergic reactions so they do not yet have that data. It is totally unclear what ingredient or adjuvant in the vaccine triggered the anaphylaxis reactions in the healthcare workers in the UK. If the new instructions are to exclude anyone w/a history of "serious" allergic reactions, than that excludes a LOT of people! This also seems very vague to me. Does it mean anyone who has an EpiPen is excluded?

If I ever do get the vaccine, after hearing this news, I would only do it in a hospital setting where I could have IV Benadryl and other pre-meds first. Although with a vaccine, once you have the shot, you cannot undo it versus with an infusion, you can stop it the moment that you start to have any allergic symptoms.

On a separate note, more info has been released re: "Operation Warp Speed" (in the US) that the government pre-purchased only 100 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine and cannot purchase more until June! They also pre-purchased 300 million doses of Astra Zeneca, 100 million doses of Novavax, 100 million doses of Sanofi/Glaxo Smith Kline, 100 million doses of Moderna, and 100 million doses of Johnson & Johnson. None of these vaccines are released yet by the FDA but they will be and it's only a matter of time. It seems that different hospitals, clinics, doctors offices, CVS & Walgreens, etc, will all have different vaccines so you really have to research which one you are getting!

 

[Strawberry]

Does it mean anyone who has an EpiPen is excluded?

For the Phizer vaccine, YES anyone that carries an epipen can’t (shouldn’t?) get the vaccine. It will be interesting to see how the other companies fare on this issue. But the Phizer issue alone now makes my brain scream to wait until they are certain any vaccine is safe for us with MCAS and autoimmune diseases. I guess the nurses are fine now, but who wants to take that risk. And did the nurses both have MCAS AND autoimmune disease? We may never know, but Phizer is a definite NO for me.

 

[andyguitar]

but Phizer is a definite NO for me.

Me too!

 

[bertiedog]

It looks like they don't grow the viruses to make the new messenger RNA vaccines. They just use a genetic code from the spike on the virus. So they are using genetic engineering instead of growing viruses!

That is absolutely correct no egg involved in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, also the Astra Zeneca one too.

The Pfizer and Moderna ones use a fairly new technique that has been in the making over the last 10 years. This was one reason why the scientists were able to produce their Covid vaccine so quickly. They already knew the technique which they had devised for other illnesses (cannot remember which ones). They just had to tweak it so that it would be successful at inducing an immune response against the Covid 19 virus.

I have watched via Zoom 2 hours of a Q and A session with one of the foremost Immunologists here in the UK whose knowledge of vaccines spans 40 years, together with Professor Spector from Kings College who is running the Zoe App I have been using since March to report on any symptoms for their Covid research. Yesterday there was another Zoom meeting with a different Immunologist and also a specialist who is currently running trials together with Kate Bingham who set up the current UK vaccine programme.

Their message was to take the vaccine as it was far safer than not being protected especially if in a high risk group but with the proviso that if you have ever suffered a severe allergic reaction previously to the degree that you now carry an Epi pen then you shouldn't at this stage have the Pfizer vaccine.

They stressed how this virus can be deadly and how its effects varies from individual to individual so nobody knows how sick any individual is going to be if they catch the virus.

Thie new guidance from our Medicine and Vaccine Regulatory Authority was because 2 NHS workers had an allergic reaction on day one. However they both had a prior history of severe allergic reactions and do carry an Epi pen. Both of them were fine after btw. Obviously data is being collected and updated as the vaccines are rolled out and thousands of people are having the vaccine daily. They are either NHS workers or Care Workers or over 80 years of age.

Personally I haven't had a vaccine for over 20 years despite being 72 mainly because I have had bad reactions in the past to the TB jab and also to the Tetanus one. However I am pretty sure the reason they affected me badly was because they both contained Thimerasol and I am allergic to mercury. Here in the UK Thimerasol is no longer used in vaccines I am pleased to say but I do know that vaccines are likely to contain salts of Aluminium but I felt better about that when I heard the amount in a vaccine is about the same size as a grain of sand so for me it is a no brainer I will be having the new vaccine probably in January or February as my age puts me in the highish risk category. I do wish it was only one jab but if so many people over 80 are having this done I don't think I should object!

Pam

 

[Wayne]

They stressed how this virus can be deadly

Hi @bertiedog -- Nice writeup. One thing I might mention is that "They" almost never take into consideration the nutritional status of people, and how that might affect their ability to deal with the virus. Optimal levels of Vit. D3, zinc, and Vit. C, are critical. Levels of magnesium, Vit. B12, and others are also important.

Then if you have affective antiviral therapies such as H2O2, ozone, essential oils (Thieves) and others, I believe the odds end up being strongly in our favor for being able to adequately address any coronavirus infection that may come our way. In my mind, these odds are much better than taking a chance on a vaccination with little track record. But that's just me.

 

[bertiedog]

Obviously we all have to make up our own minds but one fact that is unarguable I think is that more lives have been saved by vaccines than any other health intervention.

I have watched too many horrific documentaries of what Covid has done to previously well individuals who started out without any obvious health issues only to have virtually all their organ systems collapse because Covid ran riot in their bodies. Admittedly most of these were in the early days of the pandemic here in the UK but its very hard to get those fly on the wall documentaries out of one's mind and the devastation it caused to the individuals and their families.

Pam

 

[ljimbo423]

@ljimbo423 Do you understand the differences between the different vaccine types (mRNA vaccines, adenovirus vector vaccines, and traditional protein vaccines)?

Very little really. Probably just enough to be dangerous. I've read things here and there but I don't remember what I read clearly.

Do you know which type of vaccine might be the most likely to cause anaphylaxis or an autoimmune reaction?

The first time I heard about anaphylaxis regarding the vaccines was yesterday. Those 2 people in the UK. I haven't heard anything about autoimmune reactions yet.

Good to see you are really researching this and asking a lot of questions. Knowledge IS power!

 

[sometexan84]

I've been concerned by this as well.

But I feel like a Covid infection is more likely to exacerbate my condition, than a Covid vaccine. Eventually, we will have to choose one.

 

[Pyrrhus]

There is also this discussion about a petition that raised potential safety concerns about the vaccines:
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/risky-vaccination-experiments-co-signing-the-petition.82217/

 

[Fat Viking]

Eye-opening Vid on Coronavirus Vaccine(s). They skipped Animal Studies
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CIVjfDSpFe7/

 

[Gingergrrl]

For the Phizer vaccine, YES anyone that carries an epipen can’t (shouldn’t?) get the vaccine.

I agree and this is my feeling as well. There is no chance that I will get the Pfizer vaccine. I had anaphylaxis several times in 2015 & 2016 (and carry an EpiPen in my purse 24/7) and do not wish to ever experience that again .

And did the nurses both have MCAS AND autoimmune disease?

I don't think we will ever know. MCAS isn't really taken seriously or diagnosed in the UK and I also doubt that they will release the personal medical history of those two nurses. I do hope though that they will disclose if there was a specific ingredient in the vaccine that caused the anaphylaxis (if they can determine this). I also think, for political reasons, that they will release as little info as possible (in the UK and US) b/c they want as many people as possible to get the vaccines vs. to release the info re: potential adverse events & side effects.

That is absolutely correct no egg involved in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, also the Astra Zeneca one too.

I have watched via Zoom 2 hours of a Q and A session with one of the foremost Immunologists here in the UK

That is great that you have watched all of those Zoom Q&A's @bertiedog! Do you understand the difference between the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines with the RNA vs. the AstraZeneca vaccine with the "adenovirus vector" (beyond that they do not contain eggs)?

Their message was to take the vaccine as it was far safer than not being protected especially if in a high risk group but with the proviso that if you have ever suffered a severe allergic reaction previously to the degree that you now carry an Epi pen then you shouldn't at this stage have the Pfizer vaccine.

I am wondering if the FDA in the US will adopt that same proviso that anyone who carries an EpiPen should not get the Pfizer vaccine? A lot of people (rightly) carry an EpiPen in the US and would be excluded. I am wondering if the Moderna, AstraZeneca, etc, vaccines will also cause the same level of anaphylaxis reactions only we do not know yet? (b/c those vaccines have not been released to the public yet).

Personally I haven't had a vaccine for over 20 years

I haven't had a vaccine in 14 years (my last was a tetanus booster in Sept 2006) but I was not yet sick at that time and my immune system was able to handle vaccines back then. Everything is different for me now though (with several autoimmune diseases & MCAS).

Here in the UK Thimerasol is no longer used in vaccines I am pleased to say

Do you know if Thimerasol is also not used in vaccines in the US?

I am actually not clear, are the vaccines that we receive in different countries the same? What I mean is, if the vaccine is from Pfizer, is it the identical vaccine in the UK and the US (or is it possible that the Pfizer vaccine has different adjuvants depending on what is allowed vs. banned in a specific country)?

Very little really. Probably just enough to be dangerous.I've read things here and there but I don't remember what I read clearly.

No worries and I thought you might know! I am planning to start my research as soon as I get a chance.

The first time I heard about anaphylaxis regarding the vaccines was yesterday. Those 2 people in the UK.

So far only the UK has released the Pfizer vaccine but as soon as it is released here, than there will be cases of anaphylaxis here, too.

Good to see you are really researching this and asking a lot of questions. Knowledge IS power!

Thanks and there is no way that I could ever just blindly take a COVID vaccine. I blindly took Levaquin in 2010 and it was one of the worst decisions of my life and permanently damaged my right arm and caused a neurotoxic reaction and I ended up in the hospital. Back at that time, I was advised not to get a flu vaccine (b/c of the risk of another neurotoxic reaction) and that was before I was sick and still had a normal immune system!

During the two years that I was getting Rituximab, I was not allowed to have vaccines, or even be exposed to someone else who had gotten a live vaccine, b/c it was too dangerous b/c I did not have B-cells. Now it has been over a year since I stopped Rituximab, and my B-cells are back, but I am still vigilant re: vaccines b/c they are so dangerous to so many people like me (with a complicated medical history like mine).

But I feel like a Covid infection is more likely to exacerbate my condition, than a Covid vaccine. Eventually, we will have to choose one.

It is a hard decision, and I also do not want to get COVID! But when I weigh all the pros & cons, the vaccine has more risk factors for me than COVID, including death from anaphylaxis. Everything that has helped me in my illness has been immune-modulators or immune-suppressants. The last thing that I need is something that massively stimulates the immune system like the COVID vaccine.

I think if I had an illness where I was constantly getting sick (with a traditional flu or fever), then I would feel very differently re: COVID. But I have not had a traditional illness, flu, or fever since Jan 2013 (almost eight years) and the issues that nearly killed me (in the past) were all autoimmune or allergic in nature.

There is also this discussion about a petition that raised potential safety concerns about the vaccines:
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/risky-vaccination-experiments-co-signing-the-petition.82217/

Thanks @Pyrrhus and I will take a look at it.

 

[Mary]

SEVEN POSTS WERE MOVED OR COPIED FROM THIS THREAD TO A NEW THREAD: COVID treatment protocols - AS THEY WERE OFF-TOPIC OR PERTAINED TO A NEW SUBJECT

 

[Gingergrrl]

The FDA just authorized the Pfizer vaccine on an EUA (emergency use authorization) but said that anyone with a history of serious allergic reactions, anaphylaxis, and/or carries an EpiPen should not get the Pfizer vaccine.

This is a HUGE relief to me and now I have a legit, validated, medically documented reason to opt out of the Pfizer vaccine. I have no idea if this will apply to Moderna and the rest of the COVID vaccines?

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

This is a HUGE relief to me and now I have a legit, validated, medically documented reason to opt out of the Pfizer vaccine.

Your choice is legitimate, you're the one who will live with the consequences. I'm glad to hear that you feel validated in that choice.