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Coronavirus Vaccine(s)

ljimbo423

ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
4,705
Location
United States, New Hampshire
Wolfcub said:
Having had Covid already this year, I am undecided if I personally want the vaccine, or not yet.

I have heard it is 90% effective and has been proven to be safe (?) Heard that on the news today. So I am very glad to hear it's out there...but am personally wary.
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I'm pretty sure I've already had covid too. So I'm concerned about the safety of this vaccine. I'm going to wait and see how things go with further testing of it. When I got covid, my symptoms were very mild too. So if I do get again for some reason, I'm not very concerned.

So for myself, I don't feel their is any rush. I don't think it's an easy decision for a lot of people, especially those of us with chronic illness.
 
ljimbo423

ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
4,705
Location
United States, New Hampshire
CaitOS said:
And assuming you have ME/CFS, did covid make it worse?
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I would just like to give my 2 cents here if that's okay.:)

I'm pretty sure I had covid at the beginning of July. It lasted only 9 days and my symptoms were mild. I didn't get any worsening of my ME/CFS symptoms.

I do take a lot of supplements though. Including several herbs for gut health that also boost my immune system. So they probably helped reduced the severity of the covid I had.

I don't think the virus had a chance to get a good foot hold in me before my immune system started wiping it out.
 
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Fat Viking

Senior Member
Messages
153
Hip said:
What you are saying simply does not follow. Whether the vaccine offers protection or not to a given individual is unrelated to any side effects the vaccine might cause.
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Please see Post #4 and #6
 
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Hip

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,858
Fat Viking said:
Please see Post #6 "neurologic and autoimmune diseases are common adverse reactions to Alum Vaccine(s)."
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What I am saying is that whether or not a vaccine is effective in a given individual (meaning it is able to train the immune system to fight the pathogen it is indented to protect against) has no bearing on whether the vaccine triggers adverse effects.

You say in the 10% the coronavirus vaccine does not work for, it could be deadly. Nothing to suggest that.


Also if you search online, there's not much evidence to suggest vaccines can trigger autoimmune or neurological disease. Though there are some studies indicating vaccines might sometimes trigger ME/CFS.


Have you looked into the Dr Hotta treatment for vaccine-triggered ME/CFS, but the way?
 
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Fat Viking

Senior Member
Messages
153
Hip said:
What I am saying is that whether or not a vaccine is effective in a given individual (meaning it is able to train the immune system to fight the pathogen it is indented to protect against) has no bearing on whether the vaccine triggers adverse effects.

You say in the 10% the coronavirus vaccine does not work for, it could be deadly. Nothing to suggest that.


Also if you search online, there's not much evidence to suggest vaccines can trigger autoimmune or neurological disease. Though there are some studies indicating vaccines might sometimes trigger ME/CFS.


Have you looked into the Dr Hotta treatment for vaccine-triggered ME/CFS, but the way?
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The McKee and Kim studies show that Alum is “potentially harmful” to Mice. That's all that everyone needs to know.
 
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JES

JES

Senior Member
Messages
1,322
Fat Viking said:
The McKee and Kim studies show that Alum is “potentially harmful” to Mice. That's all that everyone needs to know.
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Not really because you need to define the level of harmfulness. Almost all drugs are harmful to some extent, but for some reason people are more worried about vaccines than drugs, perhaps because they come in a needle :confused:

Let's say they found out a drug tomorrow that can cure ME/CFS in 90% of people in a single dose, but it also has some aluminum or uranium (pick whatever harmful substance) in it. If the concentration of that harmful substance was low enough, I bet almost everyone on this forum would be queuing up for that drug.

Speaking of vaccine risks, aluminum isn't the main concern with a new vaccine, there are far bigger (potential) risks. For example, a component in the H1N1 vaccine caused a small minority of young adults to develop narcolepsy. It wasn't due to aluminum or any adjuvant, it was the active ingredient, a viral protein, that triggered an autoimmune reaction for some unlucky people. Now that's a real concern, but that's why you need to have vaccines carefully tested in large trials before mass vaccination starts.
 
JES

JES

Senior Member
Messages
1,322
A side note, I always find it a bit interesting that dangers of vaccines are discussed a lot on various chronic illness forums. I think a healthy person should be more critical about a new vaccine, since they have got more to lose.

If you are young, have no pre-existing conditions and a normally functioning immune system, the risk of getting severe COVID-19 is low. For those people, the risk-benefit ratio of taking a vaccine is higher.

If you are older, have already a health limiting condition, I think there is less for you to lose. It may even be that whatever COVID-19 vaccine they come up with may kick-start my dysfunctional immune system to work more normally, at least for a while. Quite a few ME/CFS patients report improvement in symptoms following certain vaccines.
 
BrightCandle

BrightCandle

Senior Member
Messages
1,152
Ultimately you have to trust the trials do their job, given the all the stoppages and detailed investigations I do trust the process even if its going to be a bit quicker compared to other vaccine trials but also they are big trials. The flu vaccine hasn't given much other than a sore arm for a few days afterwards each year so there definitely isn't some weird adverse autoimmune reaction to vaccines associated with ME/CFS in myself. I doubt I'll be first up for the Covid19 vaccine just because I can't leave the house but I don't object to it.
 
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Fat Viking

Senior Member
Messages
153
JES said:
Not really because you need to define the level of harmfulness. Almost all drugs are harmful to some extent, but for some reason people are more worried about vaccines than drugs, perhaps because they come in a needle :confused:

Let's say they found out a drug tomorrow that can cure ME/CFS in 90% of people in a single dose, but it also has some aluminum or uranium (pick whatever harmful substance) in it. If the concentration of that harmful substance was low enough, I bet almost everyone on this forum would be queuing up for that drug.

Speaking of vaccine risks, aluminum isn't the main concern with a new vaccine, there are far bigger (potential) risks. For example, a component in the H1N1 vaccine caused a small minority of young adults to develop narcolepsy. It wasn't due to aluminum or any adjuvant, it was the active ingredient, a viral protein, that triggered an autoimmune reaction for some unlucky people. Now that's a real concern, but that's why you need to have vaccines carefully tested in large trials before mass vaccination starts.
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It's not just Coronavirus Vaccine(s) that include Alum. There's a long history of Vaccine(s) containing Alum and how that particular Vaccine caused adverse reactions. Even the Package Insert contains this Information: https://www.gsksource.com/pharma/co...ibing_Information/Engerix-B/pdf/ENGERIX-B.PDF

The Manufacturers themselves have to list adverse reactions, same will happen with Coronavirus Vaccine(s).
 
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Fat Viking

Senior Member
Messages
153
Fat Viking said:
It's not just Coronavirus Vaccine(s) that include Alum. There's a long history of Vaccine(s) containing Alum and how that particular Vaccine caused adverse reactions. Even the Package Insert contains this Information: https://www.gsksource.com/pharma/co...ibing_Information/Engerix-B/pdf/ENGERIX-B.PDF

The Manufacturers themselves have to list adverse reactions, same will happen with Coronavirus Vaccine(s).
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See any Vaccine(s) and then Click on Package Insert Information, then the First few Pages will tell you all you need to know about adverse reactions. This is straight from the Manufacturers:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/index.html
 
Rufous McKinney

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,378
JES said:
Not really because you need to define the level of harmfulness.
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The issue with aluminum is the cumulative amounts of aluminum being given ...injected into tiny bodies for instance. The level of aluminum where they have mandated over 70 vaccines prior to school- thats where we are leading to high doses of aluminum.

The dose in one vaccine is likely- not a big concern. But what if you get flu shot, shingles, pneumonia and COVID .....and what if your particular body does not get rid of metals well (I think that is the case in some of us).

I have tried to avoid aluminum for most of my adult life. And now I'm expected to advocate for 70 injections into my only grandchild. Who, for all we know, is genetically related to me, a person with a very challenging neuroimmunological disorder.
 
JES

JES

Senior Member
Messages
1,322
The mentioned Pfizer vaccine is an entirely new type of vaccine called mRNA vaccine, which is not currently in use for any other disease, so I don't think we can compare its side effects to other common types of vaccines. A quick Google search seems to suggest that mRNA vaccines do not need adjuvants, as they can trigger the needed immune response without those.

If you want a COVID-19 vaccine without aluminum, the Pfizer one may be the best bet, as some other COVID-19 vaccines indeed do seem to depend on adjuvants.
 
Rufous McKinney

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,378
F

Fat Viking

Senior Member
Messages
153
JES said:
The mentioned Pfizer vaccine is an entirely new type of vaccine called mRNA vaccine, which is not currently in use for any other disease, so I don't think we can compare its side effects to other common types of vaccines. A quick Google search seems to suggest that mRNA vaccines do not need adjuvants, as they can trigger the needed immune response without those.

If you want a COVID-19 vaccine without aluminum, the Pfizer one may be the best bet, as some other COVID-19 vaccines indeed do seem to depend on adjuvants.
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That's good to know. BTW I may come across as Anti-Vaccine but I am not, I am for safe-Vaccine.
 
Rufous McKinney

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,378
Fat Viking said:
I may come across as Anti-Vaccine but I am not, I am for safe-Vaccine.
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yes: this is the huge problem with the labelling of people with entirely valid concerns- " antivax" and now your a member of some conspiracy club.

The interesting thing about concerns regarding vaccinations is its- our most well informed and best educated who have these concerns.
 
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