Coronavirus Vaccine(s)

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@Okian -- How can that even be called a placebo?!? It's certainly not the definition of placebo I learned in school. These are the kinds of things that crop up so often when researching vaccine research and development. It just makes it hard to trust the whole vaccine industry mentality--as much as I'd like to.
Exactly! This is not science anymore!
 
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I read today that a doctor in Boston with a history of allergies had an allergic reaction to the Moderna vaccine and gave himself an epipen about 10 minutes after receiving it. He was also given benadryl and steroids, and was monitored for a few hours in the ER before heading home home. (according to one report I saw, he drove himself home--but even with those drugs in his system still would be a better driver than many in Boston :nervous:)

Interestingly, this doctor has a history of severe shellfish allergies. I didn't see anything that said he that he had a history of allergies to anything else, including vaccines. I wonder if this gives us any clue about what ingredient people might be reacting to.

Either way, it sounds like people with a history of severe allergies who receive the vaccine should have an epipen on hand and be monitored for a while afterward.
 
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lenora

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Hello Everyone (yes, it's me - that everything seems to have happened to. But it's true, I swear it all is).

Many years ago, before I ever developed ME we went from Toronto to visit my brother in Maine. One night we had shellfish and, since I was young and quite healthy, I figured that whatever I had would be gone by morning. Finally it reached the point of not being able to breathe and I awakened Rod who took me to the hospital.

Apparently, (according to the nurse in ER) it's very common to have a seafood allergy in one area (different water) but not in another. I certainly learned a lot that night/morning. I was incredibly sick, and have never been without two epi-pens when I travel. It actually takes more than that to bring me out of it. So, I'm quite aware when I have anything from medicines to vaccinations about what may happen. As you can all imagine, it's very scary when you can't breathe.

To this day, and we're talking probably 18 yrs. ago, I've never had another attack. I can only think it was a bug bite of some sort or another. I've also safely had many vaccinations since.

The young Dr. did everything he could to protect himself. Sometimes it takes more than an epi-pen to get us out of it, but he had a choice: Be on the front line for catching the virus or having the injection. To be honest, I would have made the same choice....obviously they're still awaiting the third vaccine. He knew he was in a safe environment, he would/could be brought out of it, notified them of his allergy and took a chance. It's not a good position to be in....but when one weighs the risks, he took the safer one. I'm sure he'll be followed carefully. Yours, Lenora.
 
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Sushi

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Either way, it sounds like people with a history of severe allergies who receive the vaccine should have an epipen on hand and be monitored for a while afterward.
They are saying that all vaccination sites will have epinephrine available for injection. I would certainly make sure before the injection. It would seem safer for anyone with a history of allergies to be vaccinated at a medical facility where there is a doctor and a crash cart.
 

Gingergrrl

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They are saying that all vaccination sites will have epinephrine available for injection. I would certainly make sure before the injection. It would seem safer for anyone with a history of allergies to be vaccinated at a medical facility where there is a doctor and a crash cart.
I lost track of this COVID vaccine thread but have a lot that I want to add to it from my ongoing research. I am going to try to add a few things to this thread each week (in case it is helpful for anyone). I definitely agree with you @Sushi that all vaccination sites (at minimum) must have injectable epinephrine on hand and that anyone with a history of allergic reactions should get the vaccine at a hospital and not at CVS or a random vaccine site.

Here is the current official statement re: the COVID vaccines from TMS ("The Mast Cell Disease Society"). TMS changed their official name and used to be called "The Mastocytosis Society" (in case that is confusing).

"COVID-19 Vaccines & Recommendations: Our physicians recommend that patients with mast cell disease pre-medicate with an H1 blocker such as Cetirizine (Zyrtec) 10 mg for adults, one hour prior to getting the vaccine. (Please consult with your pediatrician or allergist for pediatric dosing).

Some of the physicians also recommend Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) as an alternative if you cannot tolerate Zyrtec with the caution that it can cause drowsiness and make some patients, especially the elderly, prone to falls and fractures. Please discuss with your mast cell disease specialist which H1 blocker might be right for you to use, and to obtain the correct dosing to be given one hour prior to receiving the COVID-19 vaccine.

All patients should carry an UNEXPIRED Epi-Pen or other form of injectable epinephrine with them to the vaccine administration site. Patients with a mast cell disease should receive the vaccine in a healthcare setting where anaphylaxis can be treated, should it occur, and should remain there for 30 minutes after the vaccine is administered before leaving for home.

Since the Moderna vaccine is an mRNA vaccine, like the Pfizer vaccine, recommendations for use are the same. However, these recommendations are based on currently available information and may be changed/ updated as more clinical data becomes available. Thank you.

Warmly,
The TMS/AIM team and other physician advisors from our TMS Medical Advisory Board"
 

gbells

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I had the 2nd dose of the new shingles reactive vaccine a few months ago which they say is similar to the covid one. It was uncomfortable (soreness, flu like feeling) but I am glad for the protection. Shingles is horrible and I had it in the past.

The covid vaccine is a reactive RNA vaccine. That means that it is out of your system in 2 weeks. So I wouldn't worry about side effects except allergic if you have a history.

If you are an at risk patient and have a good working immune system I would get the covid vaccine. Personally, I've had covid symptoms already and handled it with a moderate case so I'm not afraid of it. I'll wait until the other more needy patients get theirs before I get it since there is a shortage.

The main thing with covid is to follow a low inflammation diet so you don't have an excessive immune response.

Limit
  • No red meat
  • Limit sugar, vegetable oil (omega 6)
  • Limit high GMO Roundup pesticide foods (commercial grains-corn, oats, soy, wheat and commercial meats
Include
  • Vitamin D3 (4000 iu 2x/week)
  • Omega 3 (hemp oil and krill oil)
  • Vitamin C
  • Small fish (sardines, mackeral)
  • Organic foods
  • Foods with live bacteria (yogurt, fermented vegetables etc.), occasional probiotic solution intra-rectally.
Regular produce that isn't GMO is fine because it has low roundup levels.

I always tell people to eat Asian style diets, fish, vegetables and rice. Asian countries have half the deaths per million that we have in the USA.

Here's a good article.
 
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Gingergrrl

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There is another site I wanted to link re: the COVID vaccine to see if anyone has any additional info on this. This link is an official Canadian website for British Columbia (BC) for the COVID vaccine. I do not live in Canada but I found this info when I was researching "COVID vaccines & autoimmunity" and found it very interesting.

The link is called Immunize BC: https://immunizebc.ca/covid-19-vaccine-frequently-asked-questions
and it has a section called, "Who should NOT get the COVID-19 Vaccine" and in that section it includes people "who have an autoimmune disease" (which I copied and pasted below):

Who should not get the COVID-19 vaccine?
Speak with your health care provider if you:
  • Have a serious allergy (anaphylaxis) to polyethylene glycol (PEG). PEG can be found in some cosmetics, skin care products, laxatives, cough syrups, and bowel preparation products for colonoscopy. PEG can be an additive in some processed foods and drinks but no cases of anaphylaxis to PEG in foods and drinks have been reported.
  • Tell your health care provider if you have had anaphylaxis but no cause was found after seeing an allergy specialist, or if you had anaphylaxis before and did not get seen by an allergy specialist.
  • Have had a life-threatening reaction to a previous dose of the COVID-19 vaccine or to any other part of the vaccine.
  • Have an immune system weakened by disease or medical treatment
  • Have an autoimmune disease
  • Are pregnant, may be pregnant or are planning to become pregnant
  • Are breastfeeding
  • Have received a monoclonal antibody or convalescent plasma for treatment or prevention of COVID-19
  • Have received a vaccine in the last 14 days
  • Have symptoms of COVID-19 If you have a new illness preventing you from your regular activities you should likely wait until you have recovered. This will help to distinguish side effects of the vaccine from worsening of your other illness.
I was wondering if anyone on Phoenix Rising who lives in British Columbia (BC) or other parts of Canada might have additional info on this? I am wondering if there is specific info re: the Pfizer & Moderna COVID vaccines and autoimmunity (beyond the general info re: "Autoimmune Syndrome Induced by vaccine Adjuvants” or "ASIA"). Thanks in advance!
 
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gbells

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That's interesting. I have lupus which is an autoimmune disease as well as ME. My rheumatologist always encourages me to get vaccines since I'm on immunosuppressants which depress my immunity by 20%. I'll have to check with her about it. As a precaution it would be good to have it done in a doctor's office where they can quickly treat for anaphylaxis since that is a risk.
 

Gingergrrl

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That's interesting. I have lupus which is an autoimmune disease as well as ME. My rheumatologist always encourages me to get vaccines since I'm on immunosuppressants which depress my immunity by 20%. I'll have to check with her about it. As a precaution it would be good to have it done in a doctor's office where they can quickly treat for anaphylaxis since that is a risk.
I found it interesting, too, that the official Canadian info re: the COVID vaccines was different than the official American info (for the SAME vaccines). I have been doing a lot of research on this and finding a lot of contradictory info. Which immunosuppressants are you on for lupus? (only if you are comfortable saying of course)! Did you have neuromuscular weakness as part of your disease? I had specific autoimmune symptoms that are in remission (from prior immuno-suppressant treatment) and I think there is a very good chance that the COVID vaccine would put an end to my remission.
 

gbells

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Which immunosuppressants are you on for lupus? (only if you are comfortable saying of course)! Did you have neuromuscular weakness as part of your disease? I had specific autoimmune symptoms that are in remission (from prior immuno-suppressant treatment) and I think there is a very good chance that the COVID vaccine would put an end to my remission.
I take methotrexate, plaquenil, leukovorin and colchicine.

I think my lupus is caused by the same ME viruses so I'm hoping that Craysing immunotherapy will get rid of them and cure it like patients with drug induced lupus. My lupus has been improving with my ME improvements. I have been able to lower my colchicine dose (for pericarditis inflammation).
 
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Manufacturer's Package Insert for MODERNA COVID-19 VACCINE:
In clinical studies, the adverse reactions in participants 18 years of age and older were pain at the injection site (92.0%), fatigue (70.0%), headache (64.7%), myalgia (61.5%), arthralgia (46.4%), chills (45.4%), nausea/vomiting (23.0%), axillary swelling/tenderness (19.8%), fever (15.5%), swelling at the injection site (14.7%), and erythema at the injection site (10.0%).
https://www.fda.gov/media/144637/download

Manufacturer's Package Insert for PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE:
In clinical studies, adverse reactions in participants 16 years of age and older included pain at the injection site (84.1%), fatigue (62.9%), headache (55.1%), muscle pain (38.3%), chills (31.9%), joint pain (23.6%), fever (14.2%), injection site swelling (10.5%), injection site redness (9.5%), nausea (1.1%), malaise (0.5%), and lymphadenopathy (0.3%).
https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download
 

Gingergrrl

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I'm not sure if this has already been posted elsewhere but I didn't see it. Today Health Rising did an excellent article re: the COVID vaccines:

"ME/CFS and FM Expert’s on Whether to Take the Coronavirus Vaccine – Plus The Vaccine Polls"

Here is the link and it contains info re: the Pfizer & Moderna vaccines as well as detailed responses from several ME/CFS specialists/experts re: their opinions about ME/CFS patients getting the vaccines (and also their opinions re: MCAS, anaphylaxis, and autoimmunity). At the end of the blog there is a poll re: whether you plan to get the COVID vaccine and some other related questions.

https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2...gue-fibromyalgia-experts-coronavirus-vaccine/
 

Booble

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Some people claim that the vaccine is perfectly safe. Some people claim that the vaccine is incredibly dangerous. My opinion is, as with just about all things in life, the truth falls in between those two extremes. And, in this case, I think it's probably close to the safer end of things for most people.

The vaccine is not absolutely, perfectly, 100% safe for every single person, and I can't imagine any responsible scientist or doctor is making such a claim. A small number of people are having adverse reactions to the vaccine, and that is a fact.

But that's to be expected. In medicine, absolutely nothing is 100% risk-free: not common over-the-counter medications, not herbal remedies...there are even people who have negative reactions to the adhesive in band-aids!

So the calculus everybody has to do is figure out for themselves, with this as with any other vaccine or medical treatment, whether the benefits outweigh the potential risks. And this is harder if you're in a category that might make you more susceptible to the risk of an adverse reaction from a vaccine, like so many of us are. On the other hand, if you're in such a category then you might possibly be at higher risk for more severe disease if you choose not to be vaccinated. There is no perfect choice, which is why each of us is trying so hard to measure whether the good outweighs the bad.


So based on those CDC numbers so far, 2% of people are experiencing moderate-severe adverse side effects. This is not insignificant, but I imagine that it is similar to the numbers we might see from other vaccines. And although some of these side effects may have indeed been severe, some of these people could simply be those who got fevers and didn't feel well enough to go to work the next day, but were fine a few days later.

Some people might consider a 2% risk of moderate-severe adverse side effects to be perfectly reasonable in exchange for protection from covid, while others might see it as too high of a risk to take for themselves.

Historically, this makes me think of efforts to inoculate people against smallpox during an outbreak in Boston in 1721. Inoculation was not pleasant--it involved pricking the patient's skin with a needle that had been dipped in the the pus from smallpox sores. And it was terribly risky by today's standards. The people who underwent this procedure became ill for weeks or even months. And records of a small sample of those inoculated in 1721 showed that 2% of people died from the inoculation. It's amazing to think that people would choose to undergo inoculation knowing that there was a chance they would not survive. But people judged the risk to be worth it since the risk of smallpox to their own health as well the health of their community was so great: during this 1721 outbreak, 14% of people who were not inoculated died after contracting smallpox, and many of those who survived (like today's long-haulers) continued to suffer from long-term health problems.

(just to explain why I went on this tangent: back in 4th grade I did a report on Dr. Zebdiel Boylston, the doctor who performed these inoculations, because he had lived in my hometown and was a bit of a local hero...I guess the story stuck with me!)

So, like the Bostonians of 1721, we have a tough decision to make. Getting a vaccine isn't 100% risk free. But not getting a vaccine also isn't 100% risk free, both for ourselves and for the people in our communities. At least our vaccines are significantly safer than the inoculations from a few centuries ago.
Fantastic post, Rebeccare!
 

Booble

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Honestly, I'm terrified of taking it but it's one of those things that I think we have to be brave about for the greater societal good. I'm secretly glad I'm toward the end of the line so the vaccine won't be available for me until summer or fall. By then we should hopefully have even more data and ways to protect ourselves from reactions.