Coronavirus Vaccine(s)

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lenora

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Interesting @gbells as I had no reaction whatsoever. My husband did, however. Bear in mind that I've had 4 rounds of shingles, so I was so happy when I heard this was something like 95% protective. Perhaps having the shingles gave me some relief from the injection....or perhaps it didn't do anything at all. One thing's for sure, you never want to have those babies. Years later and I'm still dealing with after effects. Yours, Lenora.
 

Sushi

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A CDC report says that from 112,807 people vaccinated with Covid 19 vaccines - 3,150 of them have such side effects that are unable to perform daily activities
However, re these side effects:
Most systemic post-vaccination symptoms are mild to moderate in severity, occur within the first three days of vaccination, and resolve within 1–3 days of onset. These symptoms are more frequent and severe following the second dose and among younger persons compared to older persons (i.e., >55 or ≥65 years [for Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccines, respectively])....Hypersensitivity-related adverse events were observed in 0.63% of Pfizer-BioNTech and 1.5% of Moderna COVID-19 vaccine clinical trial participants who received the vaccine, compared to 0.51% and 1.1%, respectively, in the placebo groups....Antipyretic or analgesic medications (e.g., acetaminophen, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) may be taken for the treatment of post-vaccination local or systemic symptoms, if medically appropriate.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/clinical-considerations.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/clinical-considerations.html

My bolding--not much difference between those who received the actual vaccine and those who received the placebo.
 
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Do your own research people and don't believe what you hear left and right! Stay safe out there!
If you swing One way, you're labelled Pro-Vaccine, if you swing the other way, you're labelled Anti-Vaxxer. I go by what's accepted in the Scientific Community with Medical literature that both sides agree on, which happens to be Molecular Mimicry.
 

ljimbo423

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My bolding--not much difference between those who received the actual vaccine and those who received the placebo.
Thanks for posting this Sushi. Details and context is often so very important to get an accurate picture. Definitively in this case.

My feeling is it's up to each of us to decide weather we want to get the vaccine or not. That decision is best made with as many facts as possible.
 
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My bolding--not much difference between those who received the actual vaccine and those who received the placebo.
It's very important to know that the Placebo used in the Covid-19 vaccine developed by the University of Oxford was actually meningitis and septicaemia vaccine! This changes everything! How can you monitor properly the side effects of a vaccine if you use as a placebo another vaccine?
 
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If you swing One way, you're labelled Pro-Vaccine, if you swing the other way, you're labelled Anti-Vaxxer. I go by what's accepted in the Scientific Community with Medical literature that both sides agree on, which happens to be Molecular Mimicry.
True! Labels will always exist! I like to see with my own eyes the studies and the literature and the facts and not just blindly trust whatever is being presented!
 

gbells

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Interesting @gbells as I had no reaction whatsoever. My husband did, however. Bear in mind that I've had 4 rounds of shingles, so I was so happy when I heard this was something like 95% protective. Perhaps having the shingles gave me some relief from the injection....or perhaps it didn't do anything at all. One thing's for sure, you never want to have those babies. Years later and I'm still dealing with after effects. Yours, Lenora.
I had shingles two years ago and it was serious. I spotted the linear chest rash and went to my doctor immediately so I was able to get on acyclovir and abort the infection. However, people don't don't catch it in time will have months of severe neuropathic pain. I was happy to get the vaccination.
 
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Some people claim that the vaccine is perfectly safe. Some people claim that the vaccine is incredibly dangerous. My opinion is, as with just about all things in life, the truth falls in between those two extremes. And, in this case, I think it's probably close to the safer end of things for most people.

The vaccine is not absolutely, perfectly, 100% safe for every single person, and I can't imagine any responsible scientist or doctor is making such a claim. A small number of people are having adverse reactions to the vaccine, and that is a fact.

But that's to be expected. In medicine, absolutely nothing is 100% risk-free: not common over-the-counter medications, not herbal remedies...there are even people who have negative reactions to the adhesive in band-aids!

So the calculus everybody has to do is figure out for themselves, with this as with any other vaccine or medical treatment, whether the benefits outweigh the potential risks. And this is harder if you're in a category that might make you more susceptible to the risk of an adverse reaction from a vaccine, like so many of us are. On the other hand, if you're in such a category then you might possibly be at higher risk for more severe disease if you choose not to be vaccinated. There is no perfect choice, which is why each of us is trying so hard to measure whether the good outweighs the bad.

A CDC report says that from 112,807 people vaccinated with Covid 19 vaccines - 3,150 of them have such side effects that are unable to perform daily activities, they are unable to work and require care from a doctor or health care professional
So based on those CDC numbers so far, 2% of people are experiencing moderate-severe adverse side effects. This is not insignificant, but I imagine that it is similar to the numbers we might see from other vaccines. And although some of these side effects may have indeed been severe, some of these people could simply be those who got fevers and didn't feel well enough to go to work the next day, but were fine a few days later.

Some people might consider a 2% risk of moderate-severe adverse side effects to be perfectly reasonable in exchange for protection from covid, while others might see it as too high of a risk to take for themselves.

Historically, this makes me think of efforts to inoculate people against smallpox during an outbreak in Boston in 1721. Inoculation was not pleasant--it involved pricking the patient's skin with a needle that had been dipped in the the pus from smallpox sores. And it was terribly risky by today's standards. The people who underwent this procedure became ill for weeks or even months. And records of a small sample of those inoculated in 1721 showed that 2% of people died from the inoculation. It's amazing to think that people would choose to undergo inoculation knowing that there was a chance they would not survive. But people judged the risk to be worth it since the risk of smallpox to their own health as well the health of their community was so great: during this 1721 outbreak, 14% of people who were not inoculated died after contracting smallpox, and many of those who survived (like today's long-haulers) continued to suffer from long-term health problems.

(just to explain why I went on this tangent: back in 4th grade I did a report on Dr. Zebdiel Boylston, the doctor who performed these inoculations, because he had lived in my hometown and was a bit of a local hero...I guess the story stuck with me!)

So, like the Bostonians of 1721, we have a tough decision to make. Getting a vaccine isn't 100% risk free. But not getting a vaccine also isn't 100% risk free, both for ourselves and for the people in our communities. At least our vaccines are significantly safer than the inoculations from a few centuries ago.
 
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lenora

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@Rebeccare.....Thanks for a logical approach to vaccination against COVID. I personally feel that I'm far more at risk from the virus than from the vaccination. Most of us are. Some of the vaccines will be better for some of us, depending upon our personal medical problems and we each have to look at the side-effects and decide from there.

I may be wrong, but I do recall that our FDA is the best in the world. We can't give the agency the time it really requires for proper testing with this vaccine. However, I did read the statistics on the first, and was impressed that 3 separate trials were done with something like 45,000 people in each. Now that was on a hurry-up approach. So I feel fairly confident that proper testing was done. Who knows what the after-effects will be, but who knows as far as any vaccine is concerned? We can't see 10 years into the future and know how the body will react, but we certainly know how the coronavirus is affecting people now. Yes, people are allergic...but then I have allergies to almost everything. When you have an impaired immune system, that's one of the things you deal with daily. It gets worse with age.

Look, I have no personal responsibility whether you decide to have the vaccination, or not have it. But we do need to think about the long-term affects, not just get hung up on percentages and every little thing used in the serum. We'll get better with these things over time, but it's not our time now. We've been horribly spoiled without even realizing it at all. Since the polio epidemic, we really haven't suffered anything that comes close to requiring a quarantine. I hope it won't become a new way of life. Yours Lenora.
 
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gbells

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Some people claim that the vaccine is perfectly safe. Some people claim that the vaccine is incredibly dangerous. My opinion is, as with just about all things in life, the truth falls in between those two extremes. And, in this case, I think it's probably close to the safer end of things for most people.

The vaccine is not absolutely, perfectly, 100% safe for every single person, and I can't imagine any responsible scientist or doctor is making such a claim. A small number of people are having adverse reactions to the vaccine, and that is a fact.

But that's to be expected. In medicine, absolutely nothing is 100% risk-free: not common over-the-counter medications, not herbal remedies...there are even people who have negative reactions to the adhesive in band-aids!

So the calculus everybody has to do is figure out for themselves, with this as with any other vaccine or medical treatment, whether the benefits outweigh the potential risks. And this is harder if you're in a category that might make you more susceptible to the risk of an adverse reaction from a vaccine, like so many of us are. On the other hand, if you're in such a category then you might possibly be at higher risk for more severe disease if you choose not to be vaccinated. There is no perfect choice, which is why each of us is trying so hard to measure whether the good outweighs the bad.


So based on those CDC numbers so far, 2% of people are experiencing moderate-severe adverse side effects. This is not insignificant, but I imagine that it is similar to the numbers we might see from other vaccines. And although some of these side effects may have indeed been severe, some of these people could simply be those who got fevers and didn't feel well enough to go to work the next day, but were fine a few days later.

Some people might consider a 2% risk of moderate-severe adverse side effects to be perfectly reasonable in exchange for protection from covid, while others might see it as too high of a risk to take for themselves.

Historically, this makes me think of efforts to inoculate people against smallpox during an outbreak in Boston in 1721. Inoculation was not pleasant--it involved pricking the patient's skin with a needle that had been dipped in the the pus from smallpox sores. And it was terribly risky by today's standards. The people who underwent this procedure became ill for weeks or even months. And records of a small sample of those inoculated in 1721 showed that 2% of people died from the inoculation. It's amazing to think that people would choose to undergo inoculation knowing that there was a chance they would not survive. But people judged the risk to be worth it since the risk of smallpox to their own health as well the health of their community was so great: during this 1721 outbreak, 14% of people who were not inoculated died after contracting smallpox, and many of those who survived (like today's long-haulers) continued to suffer from long-term health problems.

(just to explain why I went on this tangent: back in 4th grade I did a report on Dr. Zebdiel Boylston, the doctor who performed these inoculations, because he had lived in my hometown and was a bit of a local hero...I guess the story stuck with me!)

So, like the Bostonians of 1721, we have a tough decision to make. Getting a vaccine isn't 100% risk free. But not getting a vaccine also isn't 100% risk free, both for ourselves and for the people in our communities. At least our vaccines are significantly safer than the inoculations from a few centuries ago.
I don't blame people for being cautious but given that it is an RNA vaccine that only lasts 2 weeks after the shot and there aren't any long term negative effects it should be fine provided the companies are being honest with the data.
 

Neunistiva

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Wayne

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It's very important to know that the Placebo used in the Covid-19 vaccine developed by the University of Oxford was actually meningitis and septicaemia vaccine! This changes everything! How can you monitor properly the side effects of a vaccine if you use as a placebo another vaccine?
@Okian -- How can that even be called a placebo?!? It's certainly not the definition of placebo I learned in school. These are the kinds of things that crop up so often when researching vaccine research and development. It just makes it hard to trust the whole vaccine industry mentality--as much as I'd like to.
 

JES

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A CDC report says that from 112,807 people vaccinated with Covid 19 vaccines - 3,150 of them have such side effects that are unable to perform daily activities, they are unable to work and require care from a doctor or health care professional and this does not include mid to long-term side effects!

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2020-12/slides-12-19/05-COVID-CLARK.pdf
I think we should be very precise about the language at this point. In the link it does indeed say that 3,150 (2%) people have as side effect been unable to work or perform some activity. It does make it sound pretty dramatic, but we don't know if those people are today in the same situation.

I got the H1N1 vaccine in 2009 and had an immune reaction where I felt very feverish and tired. If someone had asked me to perform a demanding task at that point my answer would have been the same, not able to work. 24 hours later I had no symptoms though.

Transient effects are not concerning me at all unless we are talking about something leading to death. Long-term effects are the ones that would be of interest to get more information on. I'd like to know more about what side effects those 2% got and what percentage of them were transient.
 

nyanko_the_sane

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I got the H1N1 vaccine in 2009 and had an immune reaction where I felt very feverish and tired. If someone had asked me to perform a demanding task at that point my answer would have been the same, not able to work. 24 hours later I had no symptoms though.
I think a lot of us have reactions like this with just about any vaccine. So the kind of reactions they are observing with mRNA vaccines are par for the course as they say.