Complete Symptom Relief and CFS Remission Since Starting Nitric Oxide Supplement

[kangaSue]

I stumbled upon another supplement: Agmatine, which is closely related to L-Arginine. PR thread and article about its mechanism here. From browsing a couple of forums, it seems body-builders prefer Agmatine over AAKG, so it might in theory provide even more NO benefits. It's surely something worth trialing as well for those who benefit from AAKG.

Agmatine is looking promising for neuropathic pain relief too.Taken by itself, it can increase your perception of pain but as an adjunct when taken with opiate painkillers, it can reduce tolerance levels to the pain meds so you get greater lasting effect with lesser amount of pain meds
https://examine.com/supplements/agmatine/.

 

[JPV]

Ok, so I've been using NO2 Black for 4 days now at full (10 tablets per day) dosage.

I've experienced no negative effects and actually felt pretty good for half the day yesterday. But I can't say I've had any dramatic sustained improvements.

One of the issues I've been struggling with, the last few years, are minor angina symptoms that I believe are related to lactic acid buildup. I was hoping to use this as a measuring tool to test the effectiveness of NO2 Black as a nitric oxide boosting supplement. My angina symptoms fluctuate, usually related to consuming inflammatory foods, so it's hard to tell if the NO2 Black is helping or not. I still get minor chest pains, they might be a bit less severe than usual but I can't say for sure.

Also, others have been saying that their veins have started bulging while taking it. I don't seem to notice anything like that happening either.

I'm starting to wonder if I might have some problem with the NO mechanism in my body.

Then again, I've had ME/CFS for about 20 years now. Maybe there's just a huge backlog of lactic acid that has to clear and I just need to be more patient. Or maybe it's just the wrong approach for me.

 

[gregh286]

Ok, so I've been using NO2 Black for 4 days now at full (10 tablets per day) dosage.

I've experienced no negative effects and actually felt pretty good for half the day yesterday. But I can't say I've had any dramatic sustained improvements.

One of the issues I've been struggling with, the last few years, are minor angina symptoms that I believe are related to lactic acid buildup. I was hoping to use this as a measuring tool to test the effectiveness of NO2 Black as a nitric oxide boosting supplement. My angina symptoms fluctuate, usually related to consuming inflammatory foods, so it's hard to tell if the NO2 Black is helping or not. I still get minor chest pains, they might be a bit less severe than usual but I can't say for sure.

Also, others have been saying that their veins have started bulging while taking it. I don't seem to notice anything like that happening either.

I'm starting to wonder if I might have some problem with the NO mechanism in my body.

Then again, I've had ME/CFS for about 20 years now. Maybe there's just a huge backlog of lactic acid that has to clear and I just need to be more patient. Or maybe it's just the wrong approach for me.

I am going to do further testing on taurine...another interesting amino and one i am very low in also.
I checked 3 protein shakes i use....none have taurine as an amino.
I added 3g a day and next.week will drop off.the NO2 black to see if the added taurine can offset the NO2 black removal.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3253515/

https://content.tigerfitness.com/taurine-pre-workout-supplement/

 

[cigana]

I can confirm that the NO test strips seem to be a useful indicator for me. Before I started the product, the test strips indicated I was "deficient". 2 days after starting at full dose, I was "high". Then I stopped for 5 days or so and was again deficient. I took a small dose yesterday and moved up to "low".

 

[Grigor]

Very interesting. Alcohol helps indeed with the OI. Though I haven't drank in ages.

So does XTC lol. Get no PEM like when sober.

Obviously I am too ill to try either but when I was before my crash it worked.

Clonidine also helped but couldn't handle the other side effects because I'm too over sensitive to meds.

 

[Tunguska]

Do they list how many hours the extended release lasts? That's the draw.

I take GPLC (NO booster) at bedtime because (although it does not trigger sleep anymore) it enhances the quality of sleep.

Extended-release NO would make sense for this purpose.

 

[MEPatient345]

@cigana how do you feel after trying again for a few days?
I took one Friday, and 2 yesterday, which is half a dose for my size. Yesterday was a v bad day, so I'm hesitant to take a full dose. I am severe though, so a lot of my days are very bad.

 

[cigana]

@cigana how do you feel after trying again for a few days?
I took one Friday, and 2 yesterday, which is half a dose for my size. Yesterday was a v bad day, so I'm hesitant to take a full dose. I am severe though, so a lot of my days are very bad.

It's only been 1.5days back on again, nothing to report except some weird palpitations while falling asleep (which woke me up several times). I'll let you all know if there's any significant change.

 

[Mary]

@gregh286 - I am giving plain arginine (cheap) a try after reading about your experience with NO2 Black. If I have a good result without bad side effects, I will probably give the NO2 Black a try. It (the arginine) definitely does something to me, I think it's good, I have been going very slowly because I can react very strongly to small doses of things.

So I was taking 2 or 3 500 mg. arginine capsules for about 2 days (one capsule 2 or 3 times a day), doing okay and actually sleeping a little better, and then one morning woke and was completely drugged, it sounded like someone else here experienced ( I can't see their name right now) but I was drugged, no other word for it, for most of the day. So I have stayed off of the arginine for a couple of days.

However, this article may explain this reaction: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9219930 It appears to be saying (though am not sure, I'm not a scientist!) that arginine increases the effects of GABA. I take a lot of GABA stuff in the middle of the night when I have my worst insomnia. So tonight I'm going to split open a capsule of arginine and take half since I am so dang sensitive, and cut my GABA supps, and see what happens. There's definitely a connection between arginine and GABA.

The other thing that happened was today. I woke up crashed (PEM), no surprise to me as I knew I'd overdone it yesterday and took one arginine capsule. Due to some amino acids (BCAA'S) and who knows what else, I'm now recovering in generally about a day - it used to take me 3. Well, about 1:30 this afternoon I could feel energy coming back. I'm still afraid to really do anything but it seems my recovery time was shortened by several hours. And this morning was the first time I've taken arginine since last Thursday because I was so drugged on Friday.

So the experiment continues. I want to see if I can tweak my nighttime arginine dose and supplements such that I'm not a zombie the next day.

And re arginine and HHV viruses - arginine is also supposed to increase NK cell function: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23399839
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9824439

so paradoxically it might actually help with these viruses, contrary to what I've heard all these years.

I am so glad you posted your experience here!

(BTW, amino acids can be surprisingly powerful. BCAA's cut my PEM recovery time in half. I did a post about this awhile ago)

 

[Billt]

@gregh286

We tried for 5 days at full dose . So far no response good or bad. Happy that it is working for you and hope it keeps going. We will stay on it longer just to make sure. Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[hvac14400]

And re arginine and HHV viruses - arginine is also supposed to increase NK cell function: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23399839
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9824439

so paradoxically it might actually help with these viruses, contrary to what I've heard all these years.

it might, for certain type of people, or on certain type of diet only.
i personally always gettin sick/bubbles on a lips less than in a week of everyday arginine use. tried different dosages/sсhedules, with/without lysine - nothing helps.

 

[gregh286]

Some other things i have noticed over the period i had this crazy affliction was high carb food always made my feet warm and remove tingling/numbness from hands....similar to alcohol ingestion.

After some searching I read insulin is promoter of vasodilation....you can time it after 15 min exactly after I eat high carbs i get this positive reaction. So my diet now pretty much consists of carbs all day. Porridge and banana breakfast....rice/tuna lunch and jacket potatoes dinner....this "strategy" suits my CFS profile.

Additionally I have introduced Beetroot Juice (500ml a day) in combination with Vit C (liposomal) and garlic allicin in order to wean off No2 black as a preferred "natural" treatment.

On downside I am getting a lot of lower back acne with No2 black.

Pity it did'nt work out for many....I was more hopeful.

 

[Mary]

it might, for certain type of people, or on certain type of diet only.
i personally always gettin sick/bubbles on a lips less than in a week of everyday arginine use. tried different dosages/sсhedules, with/without lysine - nothing helps.

Many people react the same way to arginine. What I find really interesting, however, is that it is supposed to help NK cell function and low NK cell function is considered by many to be a biomarker for ME/CFS. It is extremely unfortunate that arginine can so easily trigger herpes virus outbreaks.

Having said all this, I found that I have to stop the arginine because even though it seemed to help me recover more quickly from a crash, it was leaving me somewhat tired and drained after initially seeming to tolerate it okay. Back to the drawing board!

 

[Mrs Sowester]

Well I got brave and tried three of these yesterday; they don't suit me... Maybe because Gabapentin has raised my blood pressure? I don't know, but I was very light headed and seeing stars for a good few hours.

If someone would like to buy the remaining 47 tablets from me please pm me. They cost me £29.99 inc. postage from eBay, I'll happily knock a few quid off.
If I'm not allowed to offer to sell these on this forum someone please shout and I'll delete this bit of my post.

 

[hvac14400]

I found that I have to stop the arginine because even though it seemed to help me recover more quickly from a crash, it was leaving me somewhat tired and drained after initially seeming to tolerate it okay.

yes, i had that experience too, but i think in my case that was from herpes anyway - it looks like for 2-3 weeks my immune system was able to cope with virus, but used so many resources in the process, that i was sleepin like 9-11 hours per day and steel can't recover.
and then it just gave up, so i got bubbles poppin everywhere.
btw - i felt more energized in the beginning like you too, so you might have the virus also, but you probably have no secondary immune system deficiency like i do, thus no outbreaks.

 

[Mary]

@hvac14400 - you might be right, though I do have some immune deficiencies - low NK cell function, and some other immune abnormalities, chronic sinus infections.

What I'm wondering is if it did something similar to what B1 did to me - initially B1 boosted my energy a LOT - it was amazing, 100 mg., for a day or 2, and then I went downhill. It seemed to be depleting something, phosphorus was one guess (hypophosphatemia due to refeeding syndrome, see Freddd's posts on this) or another nutrient, finally I gave up, but it was very discouraging because I had felt sooo good for at least one day ...

I wish we had the research we so badly need!

 

[gregh286]

Well i stopped the No2 blacks on wed afternoon.
By thursday evening could feel my old friend returning...heavy legged.....exhaustion......malaise.
Woke up this morning totally unrefreshed....exhausted and tingling/numb hands......not a good sign. Its my poker tell.

Suffice to say.....experiment over.

 

[Scarecrow]

I was curious to try No2 Black because I regularly experience phases of what seems to be spontaneous vasodilation and a raging thirst.

I can categorise these episodes into three situations but I can only recognise a trigger for one of them:

• if I've been active, particularly shopping but not exclusively, fatigue can hit like a wave and I get a sudden raging thirst. Sometimes it's the thirst which hits first. I will typically knock back at least two, sometimes three, pints of water and half an hour later the worst of the fatigue will have passed. From time to time, I even get a boost of energy.
• quite often in the evening, after drinking adequately and peeing normally all day, I'll get a sudden thirst and drink a pint of liquid. Half an hour later, the thirst might return and I'll drink another pint, and possibly again another half hour later. I may not pee again before bedtime and in the morning very little, but over the day I'll excrete more fluid than I take in. By the evening, the raging thirst will be back.
• over periods which can last weeks or months, I get very, very thirsty overnight to the extent that I keep waking up to drink typically 100 to 200 ml of water but in the morning I don't pee out anything like the expected volume. During these nights, I'm listless/restless and weak. My blood pressure is typically below 100/60, not drastically low but low enough to feel it.

The process is unpleasant, sometimes extremely so, but the end result feels good (except in the overnight scenario which ends in the usual morning 'hangover'). It doesn't surprise me that some people are reporting unpleasant effects from the No2 Black.

I started the No2 on Monday pm so that I would get a half dose the first day. Monday wasn't remarkable at all. Tuesday was grim; by midday my vision was blurry and I couldn't think straight. I drank plenty of fluid but couldn't seem to absorb as much as I needed to. Even so, I had put on 2lb by the end of the day. Wednesday was somewhat better with improving vision but I still couldn't muster the effort to do the dishes. My feet felt weirdly engorged and warm with blood and slightly itchy in the same way that a healing scab is, rather than a rash.

On Thursday I sweated profusely in the morning (very unusual). Later on I took my mother out for her shopping and had to drag myself around the shop. My limbs seemed much heavier than usual. In the evening, I noticed that my vision was particularly good. I still had the strangely blood engorged sensation in my feet, and the right one especially was all veiny.

Today, I'm back at baseline in all respects except that my vision is much, much better and the skin on my hands and face feel moisturised. And the dishes are now done. As of this morning I was still 2lbs heavier.

No miracle so far but having forced myself through the tough part I'm going to persevere in the hope that the benefits are still to come.

 

[Billt]

Well i stopped the No2 blacks on wed afternoon.
By thursday evening could feel my old friend returning...heavy legged.....exhaustion......malaise.
Woke up this morning totally unrefreshed....exhausted and tingling/numb hands......not a good sign. Its my poker tell.

Suffice to say.....experiment over.

Was a good experiment for us and well worth the effort. Just no results. Thanks for sharing and gald to hear something that does make a difference for you ...

 

[JES]

I have tested NO2 and AAKG for a few weeks now, I returned back to AAKG because it's cheaper and can't notice any particular benefit of NO2 over AAKG. The good news is that both products help me with certain symptoms, in particular anxiety, cold hands and brain fog. The bad news is that this effect seems a bit transient, the first few days on the supplement are definitely the best. It doesn't do much for my general sickness feeling, but I would rate this among the top 10 things I've tried anyways.