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Complete remission of symptoms when I have hay fever - anyone else had this?

snowathlete

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So as I've posted before early on in my illness, in the first year if I got cold which was rare but did happen I felt a lot better while I had the cold.

Then I had about five years with zero colds.

Very recently in the last year I've started getting colds again but no improvement of ME symptoms now.

My mum, who's an immunologist, once told me that normal folks can never have two acute viral infections at once. It just can't happen, because the response you mount to the first creates an extremely hostile environment for any others.
This is interesting. I suspect that with ME parts of the immune system are on high all the time which is why you don't get colds, as soon as they invade they are destroyed- no chance to get a foothold. I know this doesn't apply to eveeyone but a large portion of sufferers.

It is very interesting about the hayfever too.

I really really wish that researchers would focus on this as I think it is a major clue that could lead to the disease being figured out. I think we need to find a way to convince ME researchers to look at this.
 

roller

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I am assuming, that woolies statement applies to bacterial infections as well...

because for all i know, it is also so, that a disease may mount an immune response that may be protective to other infections as well...

means for example (im not sure, if this is a 'real life' example): if you had measles, then you wont get rubella any time soon.

however, the vaccinations may combine immune-challenges, which our immune system would never have to deal with in real life (...at the same time or even within a midrange time frame)....
i am wondering whether this fact could be an issue...

regarding the occuring inflammation i feel, i can only say that to me its clear, there is more than one culprit. it is as if they pass on the door knob to each other... one is leaving and the other is preparing for a big party... or something like that...
im sure, it has for me never been one thing.
though, i still can only say its recurring - i never found a rule. and i tried hard.
 

Woolie

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This is interesting. I suspect that with ME parts of the immune system are on high all the time which is why you don't get colds, as soon as they invade they are destroyed- no chance to get a foothold. I know this doesn't apply to eveeyone but a large portion of sufferers.
Yea, that was what I was wondering too. @snowathlete.

I really really wish that researchers would focus on this as I think it is a major clue that could lead to the disease being figured out. I think we need to find a way to convince ME researchers to look at this.
Yea, you're right. You've got me interested in the whole issue again.
 

Woolie

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I am assuming, that woolies statement applies to bacterial infections as well...
because for all i know, it is also so, that a disease may mount an immune response that may be protective to other infections as well...
I guess that's a question we'd want to ask, @roller. What types of immune reactions "work" this way, and what ones don't? I think @OTH says it works for hay fever for her, but food allergies don't have the same effect.

I get a similar effect, especially the day or so leading into the cold. I don't feel 'well', I just feel more normally unwell, more like a normal person with a cold.
That's pretty much how it feels for me too - and the timing too.

But I have noticed it and keep wondering why this is happening, especially since taking a mast cell stabiliser has also helped with some of the M.E symtpoms. Am seeing KDM in two weeks so will ask him what he thinks about this - but it is a definite immune shift of some kind.
That would be great if you did, @justy. Curious that you get the effect from itching allergies, no-one has mentioned that yet. We'd love to hear what KDM has to say.

I'm really interested in the remission after a long haul flight phenomenon. This happened to me in May when I went back to the uk for 6 weeks. I gradually improved over the first couple of weeks to a much better level of functioning - and plateaued at that level. Unfortunately after I came back home to NZ that improvement has disappeared again.
Might it be the shake up to the body clock and cortisol levels? I've only had it going back to the UK which is where I am from originally.....might that be a factor?
I see you were writing this at 11.20pm, @daisybell!

I think when I look back, I usually get a bigger remission outbound too (and I'm from this side of the world). I figured it probably had something to do with the sleep deprivation, but that would be odd, since sleep deprivation usually makes me feel worse. Could be the shock to the body clock, as you say. The other thing about long haul flights is the lovely cocktail of viruses that float about the plane oxygen supply. So maybe its similar to what @snowathlete says: we get a few days relief while incubating some new cold virus or similar thing?
 

MeSci

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Curious that you get the effect from itching allergies, no-one has mentioned that yet.
I did in a way, when I mentioned reacquiring my wool allergy when my ME symptoms improved:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...fever-anyone-else-had-this.27428/#post-418007

So far, from memory, the 'inverse immune effect' for want of a better term has been reported as occurring with:

Colds and flu
Hay fever
Itching allergy

and there has also been mention of bee venom (possibly) being helpful but, as that involves killing the poor bees, I wondered whether nettle stings might do it - see these posts:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...fever-anyone-else-had-this.27428/#post-418315

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...fever-anyone-else-had-this.27428/#post-418287
 

justy

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@Woolie - mine is not an allergy to things on my kin that make me itch I have MCAS, so it is systemic allergic type effects - one of which is full body itching.
 
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I have a remission of symptoms when i have the flu or sleep deprivation. However i am suffering from Post Finasteride Syndrome which is a drug induced condition with no treatment, root cause understanding & cure.

Coincidently males that "crash" with post Finasteride sound very similar to CFS crashes. They feel a flu one night and wake up with severe androgenic hormone problems that last 10-15 Years + after this change in 24 hours!
 

Chrisb

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This post might be considered wholly irrelevant to the topic under discussion. On the other hand....It will need someone whose brain is functioning rather better than mine to ponder it. If irrelevant feel free to ignore it.

I was watching a drama on TV and the issue of the "fever effect" in autism was introduced. This seems to be a genuine phenomenon and has been the subject of research.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16956039

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18055656

What attracted me to this was something I vaguely heard recently about possible effects of virus during pregnancy and possibly implicating microglia in autism. I wonder if anyone else saw or heard this. It seemed to be close to subjects discussed in ME.

I am out of my depth with this but it seemed possible that there could be similar effects.
 

Woolie

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I was watching a drama on TV and the issue of the "fever effect" in autism was introduced. This seems to be a genuine phenomenon and has been the subject of research.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16956039

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18055656
I thought this was really interesting, @Chrisb. When it comes to the brain, we tend to only hear about the negative effects of cytokines... that they may play a role in depression, etc. This is a positive effect.

What this has in common with cold/flu/hay fever linked remission in MECFS is the idea that something thats supposed affect you negatively ends up having a paradoxically positive effect.

But just looking at it now, I can't seem to find any other similarities. It doesn't seem to me that MECFS symptoms - and their remission with/flu/hay fever- have much to so with what's going on in the brain. A much simpler explanation is that its something directly to do with the immune system.

But then I don't buy this idea that our symptoms are due to abnormal responses in our brains. Sure, you need a brain to feel pain, fatigue, fever. But that doesn't mean its the source of any of those things. For example, if someone breaks a leg, they feel the pain via their brains. Sure. But you don't address the response of their brain - that's just not going to the source of the problem.
 

Chrisb

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I take your point entirely. This was probably posted in the wrong place. I was probably thinking of a broader category. I seem to have come across quite a few references by people as to how their brain fog and general ME symptoms sometimes are alleviated for the duration of another illness. I suspect I have experienced the same, although it was a long time ago and memory can be deceptive.It was probably in this context that my thoughts seemed relevant.

It may be that hay fever is a more specific response and unrelated to what I had in mind.
 

Woolie

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I was probably thinking of a broader category. I seem to have come across quite a few references by people as to how their brain fog and general ME symptoms sometimes are alleviated for the duration of another illness.
This is totally the right place, @Chrisb. People have been talking here about all sorts of things that seem to coincide with a remission, including colds, fevers, etc. Its a really interesting question.
 
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Many years ago, I a friend of a friend said they had CFS - and recovered after a serious infection. Since then I've always secretly hoped whenever I've had a viral infection, that I would improve. Many infections later, no improvement and some infections let to setbacks for a while...
 

Woolie

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Many infections later, no improvement and some infections let to setbacks for a while...
@Snow Leopard, agreed I've always thought each major infection left me slightly worse than the last.

Maybe this suppression thing only happens for conditions that are mildly challenging for our immune system, but don't tax it majoirly?
 

Bob

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I was watching a drama on TV and the issue of the "fever effect" in autism was introduced. This seems to be a genuine phenomenon and has been the subject of research.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16956039

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18055656
Yes, I saw that TV drama about autism as well, and I hadn't heard of the "fever effect" before either.
Then I saw this thread and the following thread on our forum, which made me think...

CFS temporarily "cured" during common cold
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/cfs-temporarily-cured-during-common-cold.44123/