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Coffee, cocoa, tea, & mold

maddietod

Senior Member
Messages
2,856
I finally stopped drinking coffee, tea, and cocoa, and my brain fog is gone and my energy is close to normal I'm very sensitive to mold. I'm wondering if there's something in the drying/fermenting process that creates allergens that maybe we don't know about. Tea is by far the worst, and I seem to also have trouble with herbal teas. I'll test herbal teas once I'm sure I'm stable.

Does anybody know what might be going on?
 

hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
2,003
I finally stopped drinking coffee, tea, and cocoa, and my brain fog is gone and my energy is close to normal I'm very sensitive to mold. I'm wondering if there's something in the drying/fermenting process that creates allergens that maybe we don't know about. Tea is by far the worst, and I seem to also have trouble with herbal teas. I'll test herbal teas once I'm sure I'm stable.

No idea, but I've wondered. I've tried stopping before and didn't get benefits, but I was probably even worse back then. I drink quite a bit of tea (1-2 cups black tea, 1-2 cups green tea). I think there's a decent amount of histamine, but it's one of the few things left I enjoy.

How long did it take your brain fog to go away, and how severe is your ME/CFS symptoms in general?
 

linusbert

Senior Member
Messages
1,059
tea can be a anti thiamine factor, destroying the thiamine in the body, sensitive people maybe can get problems.

also some teas have bergamotte like earl grey which blocks potassium channels can leading to cramping of muscles.
 

lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,857
I only have black tea in the early morning hours. I then switch to herbal tea (no caffeine, or so it says) until about 1:00 p.m., at which time I completely stop liquids.....well, except small amounts of water for pills.

Also, I eat very little until 5:00 p.m. and I still can't sleep. So I'll try different vitamins (again!) and try to find out where my problem is. I'm always busy, that's for sure.

I now have orange lensed glasses for evening TV viewing. I hope they work.....although at least they can be returned. I'll let you know. Yours, Lenora
 

maddietod

Senior Member
Messages
2,856
No idea, but I've wondered. I've tried stopping before and didn't get benefits, but I was probably even worse back then. I drink quite a bit of tea (1-2 cups black tea, 1-2 cups green tea). I think there's a decent amount of histamine, but it's one of the few things left I enjoy.

How long did it take your brain fog to go away, and how severe is your ME/CFS symptoms in general?
Brain fog went away in a week. I was somewhere high 30% functionality, going out once a week for an hour or two. Yesterday I was out shopping and chatting with 2 of my grown kids for 7 hours, with no crash at all this morning.

BUT, there are layers to this. I stopped caffeine in February. I slowed way down on my tea intake, but increased my cocoa as it's turned colder, wanting a hot drink. My reactions to tea are much worse and faster than to coffee or cocoa, so it's likely that recovery from the tea took longer than coffee and cocoa. My last tea was a month ago, last cocoa/coffee a week ago.

BUT I also realized months ago that soy makes me brain dead. Since I drank soy milk daily for protein, this reaction was as hidden as the tea. I would not have noticed my success with tea/coffee/cocoa if I were still using soy.

ALSO in the past week I've added 2 things that might be important.
Garden of Life Sport protein powder is the only one I've found that agrees with me, it gives me 30 grams of protein, and it feels very nourishing.
Buhner's chronic fatigue herbal formula** feels restorative.

**Stephen Harrod Buhner "Herbal Antivirals" 2nd edition, page 110-111.
 

maddietod

Senior Member
Messages
2,856
tea can be a anti thiamine factor, destroying the thiamine in the body, sensitive people maybe can get problems.

also some teas have bergamotte like earl grey which blocks potassium channels can leading to cramping of muscles.
Very interesting. Tea and coffee deplete thiamine, but cocoa doesn't. I react to cocoa, but it's mild compared to tea. So more than one thing is going on (of course, why would it be simple?), but I'm a lifelong drinker of tea as my primary source of liquid.

I'm still baffled by my reaction to herbal tea, which is less than regular tea, but very pronounced. As in, don't drink it and then leave the house.
 

maddietod

Senior Member
Messages
2,856
I only have black tea in the early morning hours. I then switch to herbal tea (no caffeine, or so it says) until about 1:00 p.m., at which time I completely stop liquids.....well, except small amounts of water for pills.

Also, I eat very little until 5:00 p.m. and I still can't sleep. So I'll try different vitamins (again!) and try to find out where my problem is. I'm always busy, that's for sure.

I now have orange lensed glasses for evening TV viewing. I hope they work.....although at least they can be returned. I'll let you know. Yours, Lenora
I've been playing with sleep as well. I tried sunrise and sunset 10-minute strolls plus red light only after sunset. Only the morning light exposure makes a difference, and more to my mood than to how often I wake in the night.

I haven't had caffeine since February, but yes the stimulant in cocoa occasionally. Any amount of caffeine, at any time, is hugely disruptive to sleep.

I eat in an 8 hour window, stopping food and drink at 3. I go to bed at 9.

I can get away with 1 oz dark chocolate melted in mylk, occasionally, but even that affects my sleep and brain.

I hope some of your ideas work for you!
 

linusbert

Senior Member
Messages
1,059
I now have orange lensed glasses for evening TV viewing. I hope they work.....although at least they can be returned. I'll let you know. Yours, Lenora
for handy and computer there are night modes which do basically the same. or software like Flux.

for TV, i did it manually with calibration, you can change brightness and R G B colors , so i turned Red up and blue down.
 

maddietod

Senior Member
Messages
2,856
Hi @maddietod Since coffee, tea, and cocoa are all fermented, how do you do with other fermented foods like pickles and cheese?

Always so nice hearing someone has improved.
Interesting. I've never liked pickles or kimchi, so no help there. I don't eat regular cheese because I avoid all dairy, but I haven't had trouble with cashew cheeses. I don't know if they're fermented.

The visual I get when I think about this is leafy-poddy things sitting out in the open air, damply growing substances we don't recognize, and then drying. All of the ferments I can think of are kept wet and/or tightly sealed during the curing process. So my imagination fills in that the issue might be with airborne somethings snuggling up with dampness and being very happy.

For what it's worth, I've always gotten headaches and nausea from all beer and wine.
 

hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
2,003
I now have orange lensed glasses for evening TV viewing. I hope they work.....although at least they can be returned. I'll let you know. Yours, Lenora

(@linusbert said the same above)

For any computer use or screens where you have control, I'd recommend using something to shift the color of the screen itself. Something that hugely helped my lifelong insomnia - every light in my house is the dimmest usable light with the most orange color temperature. All my screens use various programs to shift - f.lux on my laptop and Night Shift on my iPhone.

I personally found this much more helpful than the various blue blocking lenses. Some TV's don't support it, though. I mostly watch videos on my computer so it still works.
 

L'engle

moogle
Messages
3,167
Location
Canada
I find all teas to be diuretic. Green tea and black ta make me feel much worse, coffee as well.

I drink cocoa powder in goat's milk. It still has some histamines and I sleep a bit better if I don't have it at all but mornings without it are hard to face. My sleep's generally not bad but brain fog is largely intractable.

Resveratrol and quercetin are helping a bit.
 

maddietod

Senior Member
Messages
2,856
I find all teas to be diuretic. Green tea and black ta make me feel much worse, coffee as well.

I drink cocoa powder in goat's milk. It still has some histamines and I sleep a bit better if I don't have it at all but mornings without it are hard to face. My sleep's generally not bad but brain fog is largely intractable.

Resveratrol and quercetin are helping a bit.
I take EMIQ quercetin daily for allergies - it works better for me than the regular quereitin I used for years. What does the resveratrol do for you?
 

maddietod

Senior Member
Messages
2,856
how do you do this testing?
Once I get stable, I change only one thing and see what happens. I'll drink a mug of dandelion root tea, and if that goes fine I'll drink another one, and maybe a third. If I get through a few successful tea tests, then I do the same thing drinking them all in the same day., and every day. I want to figure out if there's an overload point, or if this is completely fine. I don't think I'll get this far.

I used to muscle test, but it's not reliable enough for me. There's always the issue (in me) of 'who's answering?' Is the yes to chocolate coming from the part of me that wants the energy boost, overriding the part that will pay later? Um, yes it was.
 

lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,857
I feel that if there is more information out there, my brain will explode. I remember things for a maximum of 5 minutes it seems.

I took just plain quercetin for years and it seemed to help. Bromelain too, for that matter. Did it? Who knows? I can say it did or didn't with any great certainty. I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying, though. Rather like the tea, coffee and cocoa question.

I have taken vitamins, supplements and meds for years now. I feel they all help in some way. Let's just say that I'm still not a cripple (at 77) and while my energy is low, for the most part it isn't worse. I'm not better though and I suppose that's the gold standard.

Oh, by the way, the orange colored (heavily) lenses didn't help. My husband said they filtered blue light (or vice versa) so I think it's a matter of doing what @linusbert said. Doesn't it seem that we should be part-time jugglers or something? Yours, Lenora
 

Judee

Psalm 46:1-3
Messages
4,395
Location
Great Lakes
I need coffee/caffeine or my brain fog gets much worse. I forget sentences I just thought of one sentence before. I know this because I've been trying to cut back on the caffeine and am down to just two cups of caffeine coffee a day but it's horrible.

I wonder if it helps some of those of us with POTS and brain hypoperfusion somehow.
 

maddietod

Senior Member
Messages
2,856
I need coffee/caffeine or my brain fog gets much worse. I forget sentences I just thought of one sentence before. I know this because I've been trying to cut back on the caffeine and am down to just two cups of caffeine coffee a day but it's horrible.

I wonder if it helps some of those of us with POTS and brain hypoperfusion somehow.
I was able to use caffeine until about 6 months ago, exactly in this way. The price (pee urgency and frequency) was worth the gain. Then suddenly it started scrambling my brain while not helping with brain fog.

Why are you cutting down on your coffee intake?
 

maddietod

Senior Member
Messages
2,856
It turns out that I needed to stop whatever the drinks were doing to me while also taking Buhner's herbal formula. I got an initial boost from this combination that bordered on manic energy, and of course that's when I wrote my initial post. Now it feels like I'm maybe settling into a long-term healing. I have great days where I go to a doctor and hold my own for an hour, and then on some days I feel like I have a viral reactivation - like I'm busy fighting something.