Clostridium sporogenes

[Sarah94]

At the symposium, Ron said that they'd found that severe patients had (on average) very low levels of indolepropionate, a neuroprotectant.

Indolepropionate is made in the gut by the clostridium sporogenes species. According to Wikipedia, indolepropionate is only detected in humans who have clostridium sporogenes present in their gut.

Does anybody know if it is possible to get clostridium sporogenes as a probiotic supplement? I'm trying to find it on the internet but no luck so far.

 

[MTpockets]

If you do find some please share your source.

 

[MTpockets]

Just found this little tidbit of info:
Clostridium sporogenes is commonly isolated from soil, marine and fresh lake water sediment, preserved meat and dairy product, human intestines as well as human infections (3). Some strains are capable of producing bacteriocin-like substances that can inhibit other C. sporogenes strains (4). In the gut microflora of human, C. sporogenes converts tryptophan into indole and subsequently indole-3-propionic acid (IPA), a potent antioxidant in human body (12) that being investigated as a possible treatment for Alzheimer's disease (2).

 

[Sarah94]

Just found this little tidbit of info:
Clostridium sporogenes is commonly isolated from soil, marine and fresh lake water sediment, preserved meat and dairy product, human intestines as well as human infections (3). Some strains are capable of producing bacteriocin-like substances that can inhibit other C. sporogenes strains (4). In the gut microflora of human, C. sporogenes converts tryptophan into indole and subsequently indole-3-propionic acid (IPA), a potent antioxidant in human body (12) that being investigated as a possible treatment for Alzheimer's disease (2).

Yes I saw that on Wikipedia and of course the bit about tryptophan made me think of the metabolic trap theory. Is it plausible that a lack of clostridium sporogenes in the gut could cause that tryptophan build up which causes the trap? But, apparently (again, wikipedia) clostridium sporogenes is only present in a subset of the population anyway. So maybe not.

 

[MTpockets]

Maybe my grandmother was right and we need to eat a little dirt. LOL If the population of clostridium fluctuates in the gut, then I would question the accuracy of the tests that measured it in the general population. As far as I understand, it is fairly hard to get a really accurate picture of the gut biome. Who knows how thorough their study was.

 

[pamojja]

I would question the accuracy of the tests that measured it in the general population.

For example my only ubiome test found 5% of Clostridium at the genus level, sadly none at the specie level identified. On the other hand, I seem different in that the predicted function of all my gut bacteria is 1.38x in tryptophan metabolism, and even 7.42x in Indole alkaloid biosynthesis, compared to the mean of all samples. Does anyone know if Indole propionate is an Indole alkaloid too?

 

[pamojja]

Does anybody know if it is possible to get clostridium sporogenes as a probiotic supplement?

There is a list of all probiotic strains and where they are found in one's ubiome results, here is mine reproduced: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Vwu6k8sf9DQ1HCErTP3VBy-tWw/edit#gid=416177409

Clostridium sporogenes isn't one of them, apparently is only found in 0.12% of all Samples only. More information, as to which compounds could increase or decrease it here: http://microbiomeprescription.azure...ame=Clostridium sporogenes (0.12% of Samples)

 

[MTpockets]

Oh wow thanks for the links that is some interesting stuff.

 

[Judee]

@Lassesen might know.

 

[ChrisD]

Would anyone here consider supplementing IPA? I’ve been looking into it, ideally I’d like to replace the clostridium sporegenes population but that seems like a harder task

 

[kafkalee]

Any information regarding when clostridium sporogenes will be available as form of pill?

 

[kafkalee]

Yes I saw that on Wikipedia and of course the bit about tryptophan made me think of the metabolic trap theory. Is it plausible that a lack of clostridium sporogenes in the gut could cause that tryptophan build up which causes the trap? But, apparently (again, wikipedia) clostridium sporogenes is only present in a subset of the population anyway. So maybe not.

Ron davids said he confirmed all patients are missing clostridium sporogenes. Also subset could mean 99.9%

 

[kafkalee]

Found this paper.
https://www.journalofdairyscience.org/article/S0022-0302(16)00170-3/pdf

It says clostridium sporogenes is contains in dairy product?

 

[Wishful]

I stumbled across mention of IPA while trying to figure out why my eyes were dripping tears in cold air. Since IPA is a glial modulator and dependent on the gut microbiome, it seemed like a suspect for being involved in ME. However, as a cause of ME, it fails my temporary remission test: IPA levels shouldn't switch on and off that rapidly, and the effects shouldn't be so invariant to changes in diet. If IPA production was a major factor for ME, then it should vary a lot between a high-protein diet and a low one, and a high-fibre diet and a low one, and antibiotics should have a noticeable effect. These observations don't absolutely prove that IPA isn't a factor in ME, but it's evidence against it, and I don't see any evidence for it.

Also, my temporary remissions were triggered by prednisone, cuminaldehyde, and T2, and it seems unlikely that all three affect IPA levels, although I suppose all three could affect glial cells in a way that involves their response to IPA.

Yet one more argument against the theory: it's known by the ME research community, easy to test (give patients some IPA or C. Sporogenes), yet no one has reported this as a treatment or cure.