Choline supplement is working for me

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So I have been taking choline bi tartrate for 10 days today. For the first 8 days i took 20-25 grams a day in divided doses until a few nights ago when I threw up like crazy for hours, and have since lowered the dose to 15 grams a day. I think I have a genetic choline transport defect but will know for sure when I get WGS results back. Acetylcholine plays a role in peristalsis so replenishing that too quick could explain the throwing up. Choline bi tatrate is only 40% choline by weight. I have ordered some choline chloride from overseas which is 75% choline by weight, and will begin taking that once it arrives, and see how the taste, and ease of drinking compares to bi tartrate. They used the chloride forms in the early studies on choline; they gave up to 32 grams a day to schizophrenic, movement disorders, and some other types of patients. Other salts of choline are: choline citrate - 35% choline, and choline bi carbonate -around 63% choline.
 

robinhood12345

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The first thing I noticed was better sleep, and started having dreams which I don't normally do. Then decrease of extreme muscle tightness I have, and also slight but steady increase in cognition. And have only been on it for 10 days so looking forward to getting fully better on it in the future. I am going to start having it with soy lecithin each day so it forms an emulsion which will result in better absorption from the GI tract because choline by itself is not well absorbed, and most is metabolised by intestinal bacteria into TMA which is then changed into TMAO in the liver, and urinated out. TMAO is not a problem like some are making it out to be though.

It is interesting to know a lot of the studies on DMAE- possible choline precursor- from decades ago are by Dr Carl Pfeiffer. They used that for the same kind of problems they used high dose choline for.
 

pamojja

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Thanks. Did you meanwhile discontinue the similar high dose PABA you trialed just before the choline? And how did it go with the vitamin B5 you took before that?

Interestingly with me choline was the only vitamin till now of which I got a unwanted side effect above a certain limit after some years of up to 500 mg/d of choline, in that I would unmistakably get tension and clenching in my chaw already with 300 mg/d. Years later that tolerance was increasing again.
 
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robinhood12345

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Yeah stopped PABA a while ago.

Another thing choline unmistakably has helped me with already is less tension, and clenching in my jaw, and with no unwanted side effects.

The RDA of choline is 450-550mg, and deficiency of it- which is common- causes a slew of diseases. Even 32g a day choline chloride had no adverse effects in the studies on it. I will be on high dose choline every day for the rest of my life for a genetic disease of it . I know it will have no adverse effects.
 

pamojja

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Yeah stopped PABA a while ago.
Why you quit PABA? What happened with vitamin B5?

I will be on high dose choline every day for the rest of my life for a genetic disease of it. I know it will have no adverse effects.
Excuse my insistence, but you said similar things concerning B5 and B10 as you do now with B4. Which before doesn't seem to have worked out.
 
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robinhood12345

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I will write the full story one day but I realised eating eggs, and taking bakers yeast was one of the only things that ever helped me. Assuming I had a genetic disease of one of the b vitamins in yeast I ran through the list taking them all in high doses. One was b5. PABA is not on nutritiondata or other websites like it even though it is essential so tried PABA, and then inositol (non essential)- both did not work either. Never fully realised choline was actually an essential nutrient until started reading books on the history of the b vitamins so then started taking choline, and now it is helping so I expect to have a choline transport defects. There are 7 choline transporters. If I had choline transport problem into all cells I would of been sicker with cancer, heart disease, stroke, kidney/liver damage so it must not be all cells. slc5a7 is only into neurons to make acetylcholine so it might be that. Will know when get WGS back anyway.
 

iwillwin1day

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Yeah stopped PABA a while ago.

Another thing choline unmistakably has helped me with already is less tension, and clenching in my jaw, and with no unwanted side effects.

The RDA of choline is 450-550mg, and deficiency of it- which is common- causes a slew of diseases. Even 32g a day choline chloride had no adverse effects in the studies on it. I will be on high dose choline every day for the rest of my life for a genetic disease of it . I know it will have no adverse effects.
What about fatigue? It is giving you energy?
 

robinhood12345

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To investigate the function of PEMT and its role in animal physiology, targeted disruption of the Pempt2 gene

Mice homozygous for the disrupted Pempt2 gene displayed no abnormal phenotype, normal hepatocyte morphology, normal plasma lipid levels, and no difference in biocomposition.

https://www.omim.org/entry/602391

Slc5a7 on the other hand https://www.omim.org/entry/608761?search=slc5a7&highlight=slc5a7

Ferguson et al disrupted the Cht gene in mice. Although morphologically normal at birth, Cht -/- mice became immobile, breathed irregularly, appeared cyanotic, and died within an hour.

And it has all the symptoms it causes in patients with mutations in it.
 

pamojja

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Excuse my insistence, but you said similar things concerning B5 and B10 as you do now with B4. Which before doesn't seem to have worked out.
Would you mind to give an update how it went with high dose choline after two and a half months?
@robinhood12345, so could I take your silence to my question to mean an other of your high dose experiments failed?

I took succinic acid for bit but it didn't help.
 
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Yeah choline didn't help. taking home made liposomal magnesium at the moment, and will see if that works. Waiting on Dante labs WGS as I'm sure I have a genetic disease.
 
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xrayspex

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I just took GPC choline today for first time at rec of a naturopath and am feeling really angry and tense some hours later now. I get that from vitamin D and some supps. Lately been tolerating collagen and fish oil surprisingly help with pain but maybe make me dopier.

but anyway, have you ever heard of choline causing uncomfortable side effects? I feel more pressure in my head. Have had number of concussions and neck issues.
glad you're liking it robinhood!
 
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Unlikely to be choline as it is a natural vitamin in food. Choline didn't do much for me even though I thought it was early on. I will be taking carnosine soon.
 

xrayspex

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Unlikely to be choline as it is a natural vitamin in food. Choline didn't do much for me even though I thought it was early on. I will be taking carnosine soon.
I just remembered I also had dandelion tea today which I have not had in some years because of negative effects---so was not a clean experiment, will have to isolate variables more carefully.

good luck with carnosine. when I tried taking amino acids in isolation always had bad luck...am super MCS...so its strange that I am able to handle some collagen regularly the last month or so.
 

xrayspex

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Best way to get collagen is buy 1kg of bones from a super market or butchers for a few bucks, put in slow cooker with water for 24-48 hours = home made lovely cheap bone broth. Yumm.
yes I have done that and we have some food coops locally that sell it already made if I am lazy....but I do love how the powder tastes in smoothies :)
 
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Has anyone benefited from choline in the long term?
I have an annoying CFS, digestive problems and light stools. I also remembered that many years ago after the bile intake procedure I had a terrible jaw spasm. Perhaps I have violated some processes associated with choline. Should I try to take choline? What form is best to take it?