Cholestyramine herx means lyme?

[Approximately_me]

Hi all.

So I've been trying toxin binders recently and having really bad herxes. I'm presuming they're herxes, anyway. Within 10-15 minutes I accumulate a worsening of neuro symptoms.

This happened with both charcoal and cholestyramine. With the charcoal, however, I waited half an hour and then had a meal. I felt better within the hour and actually had a low inflammation day. With the cholestyramine I took this morning (4 g), I've felt just awful for the entire day.

I had been working under the assumption that I had a mold illness. But am I correct in understanding that this indicates a lyme (or some other infection)? If anyone could shed some light on this, I would appreciate it a lot.

Shoemaker suggests 4 doses of 9 grams of cholestyramine to get the toxins out, but it looks like I will only be able to handle maybe 1 gram (at the most) once per day for the time being (I also think I have to rotate it with other binders--diatomaceous earth, charcoal, bentonite, apple pectin as I build up immune reactions to everything so quickly). Will I even be making a dent at this dosage?



(I have had a debilitating yeast problem in the past but since I left my moldy apartment that problem went away entirely and I have not been able to produce any die-off with antifungals since.)

 

[acrosstheveil]

i have lyme and mycotoxins. I couldn't take chloestyramine at all. I tried it for a while but it impacted my digestive tract and gave me severe hemorhoids. Doesn't even seem like something you should be putting in your body.

 

[Martial]

Make sure these are not side effects to the statin drug itself, some people can develop issues from statin drugs alone, with no other factors in play.

Yes, if you are herxing though there could be a lyme component for you. If this is the case I highly suggest finding an LLMD when you can get the chance. Run an IgeneX test and accept no other lab because it will not be accurate enough, also a negative antibody test does not mean there is no infection. More then likely it is common to get negatives because the antibodies are used up in fighting the infection, it is better to do a follow up test for blood smear to look for bacteria in this case. Given if only under the circumstance that the antibody western blot comes back negative, you can always do it first but its expensive at 600$.

 

[Approximately_me]

I really lack the funds for an expensive test right now. Is there a supplement which will typically cause only a herx reaction to lyme that I can use as a rough diagnostic?

 

[maryb]

I really lack the funds for an expensive test right now. Is there a supplement which will typically cause only a herx reaction to lyme that I can use as a rough diagnostic?

I think that's a very difficult question? Personally I was going off my symptoms list in self diagnosing Bartonella. However I've now had the test done and should know in a week or so.

My doctor has just prescribed cholestyramine, so having read your response will make sure I only start on very low dose, just taking zeolite at the moment, started with one drop a day, and took 4 today, it does produce neuro symptoms at even one drop, I wish someone could explain why..............
I toll some modified pectin last week and felt so rough - only a quarter of the rec dose.... it really does drive you mad.
But don't be put off if we can even tolerate a tiny dose and get symptoms its shifting something and that can only be good.

All the doctors say its a marathon not a sprint - I know they mean well but I really want to get to the finishing line soon

 

[Approximately_me]

UPDATE: I tried 15 drops of cat's claw yesterday to see what kind of reaction I got. I experienced symptoms fairly close to my old yeast herx reaction--fogginess, heavy arms and legs, sleepiness. I actually passed out for a couple hours in the middle of the afternoon.

Is it reasonable to assume that this is lyme related die-off? I suppose it could be anything, even a bit of yeast left in my system.

 

[impossible]

Make sure these are not side effects to the statin drug itself, some people can develop issues from statin drugs alone, with no other factors in play.

Yes, if you are herxing though there could be a lyme component for you. If this is the case I highly suggest finding an LLMD when you can get the chance. Run an IgeneX test and accept no other lab because it will not be accurate enough, also a negative antibody test does not mean there is no infection. More then likely it is common to get negatives because the antibodies are used up in fighting the infection, it is better to do a follow up test for blood smear to look for bacteria in this case. Given if only under the circumstance that the antibody western blot comes back negative, you can always do it first but its expensive at 600$.

????? Cholestyramine is not a statin, and the Igenex western blot for just lyme is only $200 or so

 

[impossible]

UPDATE: I tried 15 drops of cat's claw yesterday to see what kind of reaction I got. I experienced symptoms fairly close to my old yeast herx reaction--fogginess, heavy arms and legs, sleepiness. I actually passed out for a couple hours in the middle of the afternoon.

Is it reasonable to assume that this is lyme related die-off? I suppose it could be anything, even a bit of yeast left in my system.

I say try a fair dose of something that is purely antifungal.

 

[maryb]

@impossible
15 drops is a lot to start with...........
I get a response on 2 drops.

 

[Approximately_me]

Well, I did 15 drops because I figured it would be low enough that I wouldn't die, but high enough I would be able to tell what was going on.

 

[Approximately_me]

Impossible: I've tried upwards of two rutabagas at a meal as an antifungal... nothing.

 

[Martial]

????? Cholestyramine is not a statin, and the Igenex western blot for just lyme is only $200 or so

Sorry did not realize, I always knew it was a cholesterol lowering drug so that it was in the same class as statins, after looking now I know it mentioned it does this by binding with cholesterol in the bile rather then the issues with statins and muscle issues.

Also I am referring to the blood smear test not western blot, the western blot is 200$ but the one that checks for spirochetes typically runs 600$.

 

[Approximately_me]

So my use of charcoal has resulted in some good periods and bad ones. At first I thought the bad ones were a delayed herx, but now I'm suspecting they're triggered by increased environmental sensitivity. Has anyone else experienced this?

Also, my gut is quite swollen and my stool (sorry) is dark green. To me this would be the result of either mobilizing toxins, a reaction to the charcoal or, without the toxins in my gut, my gut is reacting to other infections inside it. Thoughts?

Thanks again everyone.

 

[maryb]

I think the actual charcoal is responsible for the colour change in your stool. It does say this in the literature.

 

[Approximately_me]

I don't think so. In my past experience charcoal turns stool black. Green is usually associated with rapid transit through/inflammation of the small intestine.

 

[Arturo S.]

@Approximately_me, did you ever find an answer to your question? I'm in a similar boat myself: I had thought mold was my issue but experienced something like a herx while taking CSM. In DR. Neil Nathan's book "Toxic" he mentions his mold patients experiencing a herx-like reaction to CSM but doesn't say anything more. So I don't know if that's because they're also dealing with other issues (like Lyme or candida) or what.

 

[Lalia]

@Approximately_me, did you ever find an answer to your question? I'm in a similar boat myself: I had thought mold was my issue but experienced something like a herx while taking CSM. In DR. Neil Nathan's book "Toxic" he mentions his mold patients experiencing a herx-like reaction to CSM but doesn't say anything more. So I don't know if that's because they're also dealing with other issues (like Lyme or candida) or what.

The thing about CSM is that it's the harshest mould binder around. So if you don't tolerate it, that doesn't mean you don't have mould illness, or that you also have lyme. Personally, mould made me hypersensitive, so I only tolerate tiny amounts of natural binders, like charcoal and clay. These have had a huge impact on my health, with tiny amounts of activated charcoal taken once every 4 - 5 days allowing me to put on 12 kilos (I was severely underweight). If I were you, I'd trial smaller doses of some of the natural binders, to see if they help as I know of many people with mould illness who can't tolerate even a tiny amount of CSM.

Having said this, I do believe we accumulate toxins like mould, heavy metals etc because we're missing the necessary nutrients our body needs to manage functions like methylation, sulfation etc. Investigating and addressing nutrient deficiencies is just as important as removing toxins, in the long run. Happy to be of further help if you need, I used Toxic as my bible when starting mould treatment and have had several consults with Nathan.

 

[seamyb]

These have had a huge impact on my health, with tiny amounts of activated charcoal taken once every 4 - 5 days allowing me to put on 12 kilos

I'm a bit confused about how activated charcoal works with mold.

I assume we're breathing mold in and not ingesting it. But does activated charcoal not work in the stomach? Or does it also get into the blood and bind things there?

Do you have any other advice for using it? I just got some so need to work out dose and time of day etc..

 

[Lalia]

I'm a bit confused about how activated charcoal works with mold.

I assume we're breathing mold in and not ingesting it. But does activated charcoal not work in the stomach? Or does it also get into the blood and bind things there?

Do you have any other advice for using it? I just got some so need to work out dose and time of day etc..

I’m not sure how to answer that question about mould TBH. Neil Nathan talks about mould colonizing in the gut and sinuses, so I always assumed I had mould in my gut and that’s why the charcoal worked so well. However, I’m certainly not better and I’m a complex case just like everyone else on here, so whether that’s accurate or not - I can’t say. It may just be that my gut and liver are in such a mess that the charcoal helped mop up toxins generally.

It’s recommended to take it 2 hrs away from food and supplements so it doesn’t absorb things. If you’re sensitive I’d recommend starting low and slow. If you find it constipating magnesium can help balance things. Oh and I do think most doctors recommend taking binders for a short period of time so they don’t absorb minerals. But many of us on PR rely on them to control our symptoms so...

Good luck and please let me know if you have any other quesTions!

 

[seamyb]

When you say not better do you mean at all or not completely better?

Have you tried addressing the sinuses with something like Brewers protocol?

I'm going to experiment with cumin essential oil by sniffing the vapour... it's a known antifungal so maybe something will happen.. I'm not too hopeful though