Chlamydia Pneumoniae, antibiotics and chronic fatigue

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Hey forum, haven't posted in a whiiiiiile.
My battle against extremely debilitating, worsening overtime chronic fatigue continues and I'm worse now than ever. I've been trying a bunch of different antibiotic treatments but nothing's working so far. The main culprit: chlamydia pneumoniae (and mycoplasma pneumoniae).

I reckon maybe the treatments have been too spread out over many different antibiotics and perhaps a more systematic/consistent assault of about two or three only over a lengthy period would do the trick...

Has anyone had success with antibiotics vs those chronic infections: herxheimer reaction, actually feeling the improvement happening, dropping symptoms overtime... ??
 

Markus83

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Cpn is extremely hard to eradicate. I fight against them for more than a year and not much improvement yet. You need a complex antibiotic regime like the Wheldon protocol which tackles all different morphological forms of the Cpn, especially the aberrant bodies. It seems that only metronidazole/tinidazole works for this forms.

How were your diagnosis made? Wheldon protocol is not a childrens birthday so you have to be sure the diagnosis is correct. You need at least one year, maybe two or three in case of CFS.

Here's the page of David Wheldon: http://www.davidwheldon.co.uk/ms-treatment.html

What exactly was your treatment?
 

pattismith

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Hi Jo,

The Wheldon protocol that Markus linked in his post is the one I used to fight my intracellular bacterial infections (C.Pneumo, M.Pneumo, Yercinia).
It was very hard, but I kept it 4 months, with some improvements and some side effects. I had to stop it two years ago, but I hope to be able to go back to it.
 
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I had Mycoplasma pneumoniae a year or so before my crash into ME. It's a nasty little bug. The strangest symptoms were depression (I had never been depressed like that before) and my sense of smell being altered (everything smelled really musty and gross).

At the time I was seeing a functional medicine doc who gave me loads of herbal based antimicrobials and also series therapy (this one: https://revelationhealth.com/products/desbio-mycoplasma-series-therapy-kit ). Those did help, and my IgG went down, however it took 6-8 months. After the 6-8 months, I did notice that I wasn't depressed anymore. Then later, after I got ME, I did a Vitamin C IV and the last lingering bit of my altered smelling went away. I take it to mean that I might have gotten rid of the Mycoplasma...or rid of it enough, for now.

So you can look into natural antimicrobials and series therapy and maybe find a Natropath or someone who does it. This has to be approached carefully too, as some people can have quite a reaction. You might try Vitamin C IV as well, it might help some.
 
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Cpn is extremely hard to eradicate. I fight against them for more than a year and not much improvement yet. You need a complex antibiotic regime like the Wheldon protocol which tackles all different morphological forms of the Cpn, especially the aberrant bodies. It seems that only metronidazole/tinidazole works for this forms.

How were your diagnosis made? Wheldon protocol is not a childrens birthday so you have to be sure the diagnosis is correct. You need at least one year, maybe two or three in case of CFS.

Here's the page of David Wheldon: http://www.davidwheldon.co.uk/ms-treatment.html

What exactly was your treatment?
Thanks, that's pretty much what I was looking for, a good consistent attack plan. These little bastards ain't playin, you've got to NUKE EM.

My diagnosis ? I got tested here in a regular mainstream French lab and CPN showed up along with Mycoplasma Pn. Then, I got a 450USD test done at a specialized lab in Germany (Armin) which showed the actual numerical values (not just positive/negative) and again both CPN and MPN showed up and they were clearly high. I see a medical doctor here, one of the big major figures of French chronic infection specialized doctors, and he immediately identified those as being the cause.

Treatments ? Just about every antibiotic you can think of, at different periods, usually two at a time for 15 days, then 15 days rest, then 15 days of another two. I take it the treatments are too varied, and should be more focused.
 
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Hi Jo,

The Wheldon protocol that Markus linked in his post is the one I used to fight my intracellular bacterial infections (C.Pneumo, M.Pneumo, Yercinia).
It was very hard, but I kept it 4 months, with some improvements and some side effects. I had to stop it two years ago, but I hope to be able to go back to it.
thx for the message. Why'd you have to stop for two years, could I ask ?
 
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I had Mycoplasma pneumoniae a year or so before my crash into ME. It's a nasty little bug. The strangest symptoms were depression (I had never been depressed like that before) and my sense of smell being altered (everything smelled really musty and gross).

At the time I was seeing a functional medicine doc who gave me loads of herbal based antimicrobials and also series therapy (this one: https://revelationhealth.com/products/desbio-mycoplasma-series-therapy-kit ). Those did help, and my IgG went down, however it took 6-8 months. After the 6-8 months, I did notice that I wasn't depressed anymore. Then later, after I got ME, I did a Vitamin C IV and the last lingering bit of my altered smelling went away. I take it to mean that I might have gotten rid of the Mycoplasma...or rid of it enough, for now.

So you can look into natural antimicrobials and series therapy and maybe find a Natropath or someone who does it. This has to be approached carefully too, as some people can have quite a reaction. You might try Vitamin C IV as well, it might help some.
it's a nasty little bug, heh, that's an understatement ! Yeah random depression, usually for entire days in a row, and all sorts of disparate symptoms: tendency towards arthritis, swelling in the knees, allergy reactions, inability to cope with high or low temperatures, food intolerances etc...

I'm not a big fan of anything herbal, I believe such an old chronic infection only understands war of the purest kind, and light treatments have never worked for me. The only thing that's gotten a reaction out of me ever has been the antibiotics, no improvement but a reaction, Herxheimer probably cytotoxins being crapped out by the little bastards. I've never tried Intravenous anything, but that sounds like a concrete option, I believe it's a lot more common and accepted in the U.S. than in Europe and France in particular. Did you get a doctor to do it for you easily ?
 

pattismith

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thx for the message. Why'd you have to stop for two years, could I ask ?
When I started the protocol I was in constant spine pain, and I had hypnic jerks. This pain and the jerks disappeared as soon as I started antibiotics, but my muscles went weaker and weaker. I didn't recover after stopping the antibiotics.
I can't go back on Azithromycin or Clarithromycin, or can hardly move. It seems that my neuro-muscular junction was impaired or something closed to it.
I still fight to improve this problem, before any further antibiotic treatment.
 
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@Jo86 I was lucky that my doctor did the vitamin C IV. In the US there are IV clinics in major cities which will do vitamin C and other nutritional IVs. So, while not popular, it is easy enough to find in big cities. Maybe you can google and see if there are any near you...
 
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@Jo86 I was lucky that my doctor did the vitamin C IV. In the US there are IV clinics in major cities which will do vitamin C and other nutritional IVs. So, while not popular, it is easy enough to find in big cities. Maybe you can google and see if there are any near you...
thanks for that. Sorry for the delay, totally forgot about this thread !
What I'd really like to try is IV antibiotic shots. But it's near impossible to just get the regular pill kind here, I'm not exactly sure what it is but France are absolutely terrified of antibiotics.
 

Markus83

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For Chlamydia this makes no sense because all antibiotics suitable for Cpn can be taken orally and will work as well as given iv. If you live near the Germany you could go and see a Lyme specialist there. Or if you live near Paris you could try to see Prof Christian Perronne: http://www.infectiologie.com/fr/services-infectiologie/paris-garches_-f.html
Huh, well thx for that ! I'm currently seeing a specialist in chronic infection but tbh it hasn't really been fruitful. How did you learn about that Perronne guy, please don't tell me a 3sec google search or I'll feel very very useless right now. I might give them a call, get a sense of what they're about.
 

Markus83

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Peronne is a well known specialist for chronic lyme in france and a renowned infectiologist. I don't know if he would do the Wheldon protocol for Cpn with you, but you could ask. But Peronne is under attack from many colleagues for treating chronic lyme, so you really have to see him personally and not any other infectiologist, because they most likely won't treat you.

My doctor from Germany (near Stuttgart) would very likely prescribe you long term antibiotics for Cpn. I don't know, maybe it's not so far from you? I've seen the TGV-train in Karlsruhe often, that means it's possible to come to Germany with TGV probably quite rapid. From Karlsruhe it's about 20 minutes by train to my doctor. So maybe it's the easiest thing to see my german doctor (depends on how severe your CFS is and if you are able to travel).

Before you do anything, it makes sense to load up your lab results. Armin labs is known for producing many false positives, I wouldn't rely on it. So it makes sense to get proper testing before thinking about traveling around for treatment.
 
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Peronne is a well known specialist for chronic lyme in france and a renowned infectiologist. I don't know if he would do the Wheldon protocol for Cpn with you, but you could ask. But Peronne is under attack from many colleagues for treating chronic lyme, so you really have to see him personally and not any other infectiologist, because they most likely won't treat you.

My doctor from Germany (near Stuttgart) would very likely prescribe you long term antibiotics for Cpn. I don't know, maybe it's not so far from you? I've seen the TGV-train in Karlsruhe often, that means it's possible to come to Germany with TGV probably quite rapid. From Karlsruhe it's about 20 minutes by train to my doctor. So maybe it's the easiest thing to see my german doctor (depends on how severe your CFS is and if you are able to travel).

Before you do anything, it makes sense to load up your lab results. Armin labs is known for producing many false positives, I wouldn't rely on it. So it makes sense to get proper testing before thinking about traveling around for treatment.
this sounds pretty interesting...are you German yourself ?
So I checked and I could actually get a Nice-Stuttgart by plane for 109€.
What have you been treated for if I may ask, and have you had improvement from long term antibiotic treatment ? Thanks man.
 
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Yes, I'm from Germany. I'm currently treating for chronic Cpn, but it is extremely hard to get rid off.
I checked with that Perronne guy, he's booked for the next 15 years. Or the next year. Well, for a long time anyways.

Have you gotten any sort of relief whatsoever from anything ? For me it's been 13 years of straight up worsening, and I'm active with Cpn and Mycoplasma so they're the main suspects. Nothing's ever helped. Have you been on antibiotic treatments many times, any ever help ? Are you feeling any improvement now ?
 

Markus83

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If you really have chronic Cpn, the only thing that might work is the Weldon protocol: combined ABx for at least one year. I have relief under tinidazole pulses, but it lasts not for long. Problem is that tinidazole is probably making cancer, so I tried to use it not so much.
 
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If you really have chronic Cpn, the only thing that might work is the Weldon protocol: combined ABx for at least one year. I have relief under tinidazole pulses, but it lasts not for long. Problem is that tinidazole is probably making cancer, so I tried to use it not so much.
How dare you. Are you accusing me of forging a fake Cpn infection identity ?! My Chlamydia is as real and authentic as they come !!

More seriously, one more thing: some people talk about the antibiotics giving them relief and signs of improvement early on. I think an infection this deep and this old will take a lot more Hell before it gets any better. Have you ever felt that early improvement in a treatment from antibiotics ?
 

Markus83

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It can a long time until it gets better. So you have to be as sure as possible that the diagnosis is correct, otherweise you're taking long term abx for nothing, and even damaging yourself. It's hard to recommend anything. In my case I'm nearly 100 % sure that I have chronic Cpn as cause of my fatigue (and the tinidazole gives relief), so that's the way for me to go because there are no other alternatives as combined abx protocol.
 
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I have been the the Wheldon protocol for 6 months(3rd pulse). I can only tolerate the treatment using hyperbaric oxygen chamber daily. I feel much worse than before treatment but it is clear that nerve damage is being reversed and I have more strength/stamina. If I didn't have the nerve damage as a reference point, I would have assumed the treatment is not working. I treated hbot alone 5 months prior with little improvement