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CFS a protection against Coronavirus?

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I'm asking, because Dr. Klimas talks about our somewhat compromised immunes...

But metabolic studies referenced elsewhere suggest CFS shows hallmarks not of system failure but of intelligent design--a form of mitochondrial hibernation or cellular self-defense in the presence of a pathogen. Though it was a bad virus in 2013 that triggered my CFS, doesn't the hibernation condition (moderated in me by my years of methylating and rebalancing) make us LESS LIKELY to over-react with cytokine storms, which seem to be responsible for the lethality of COVID-19?

Interesting also to note that more women present with CFS than men, and more men seem to be suffering the severe forms of coronavirus.

I'm sitting here wondering during a 14-day self-quarantine, after a neighbour back from a cruise coughed over me the other day. He is sick with mild symptoms, and now I am sick with ridiculously mild symptoms. I am 59, with no prior conditions BUT CFS, and never smoked or vaped. Unfortunately, this being America, we can neither of us get tested currently with the PPE/test shortages and our mild symptoms.

Whatever this is it is the first flu I have had since onset of CFS in 2013, and I am practically asymptomatic. Interestingly the symptoms from my trigger virus were worse, but not as severe as my wife suffered, and she did not get CFS. I wonder if there will be a wave of post-viral syndrome after this pandemic, especially among highly stressed city dwellers like those New Yorkers, of whom I was one, now living in an epicentre.

For interest, I dose with diatomaceous earth, Olive Leaf, Quercetin, and Elderberry and they reduce the mild fluey feeling to almost nought in 15 minutes.
 
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ljimbo423

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I'm sitting here wondering during a 14-day self-quarantine, after a neighbour back from a cruise coughed over me the other day. He is sick with mild symptoms, and now I am sick with ridiculously mild symptoms. I am 59, with no prior conditions BUT CFS, and never smoked or vaped.
I'm pretty sure I got Covid-19 from a neighbor when I used their phone. She was coughing a lot but at the time, before the lockdown, I didn't think a lot about it. My symptoms were also incredibly mild, in fact so mild I though it was an exacerbation of my allergies for a few days or die-off symptoms from treating sibo.

I haven't had a cold or a flu in 10-15 years, so I'm fairly certain what I had was Covid. Although it's completely gone now and has been for 2 days. It only lasted 8 days and I'm 60 by the way.

I'm asking, because Dr. Klimas talks about our somewhat compromised immunes...
My immune system seems to be anything but compromised. Not having a cold or a flu for at least 10-15 years tells me that my antiviral immunity is very high and clobbers any virus that tried to get a foothold in me. Antiviral immunity is the TH1 arm of the immune system. The other arm is the TH2 arm, which is anti-inflammatory and produces antibodies to things like Covid-19.

I'm taking a lot of supplements, which is a big part of why I had such mild symptoms, I'm pretty sure. I'm taking some of the same ones you are, like quercetin, olive leaf extract, also curcumin and a couple of others that boost my TH2 arm of my immune system.

I think between my ME/CFS up-regulating my TH1 immune system and the supplements I'm taking boosting the TH2 arm of my immune system. My immune system is strong in both arms and that's why my symptoms from what almost certainly was Covid-19 were so mild.

I think it's when the 2 arms of the immune system become unbalanced, where one is a lot stronger than the other or if they are both weak. This is what is causing people to have severe symptoms with Covid-19. My view is, if we can keep both arms of our immune systems strong, the viral symptoms from this will, in most people be fairly mild.
 
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i also have not had flu or cold for years and have wondered the same thing - if me/cfs does something to my immune system that is protective against these viruses. i live in one of the US hotspots in an apt building with hundreds of other people who share the same entrances, elevators, hallways, and mailroom. i have copd, am in my mid-50's and therefore and am at increased risk of complication. i am sure i will be exposed at some point. fingers crossed! (btw, my daughter has had it and only had a controllable exacerbation in their asthma and fatigue/weakness for a few weeks).
 

ljimbo423

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i also have not had flu or cold for years and have wondered the same thing - if me/cfs does something to my immune system that is protective against these viruses. i live in one of the US hotspots in an apt building with hundreds of other people who share the same entrances, elevators, hallways, and mailroom. i have copd, am in my mid-50's and therefore and am at increased risk of complication. i am sure i will be exposed at some point. fingers crossed! (btw, my daughter has had it and only had a controllable exacerbation in their asthma and fatigue/weakness for a few weeks).
Vitamin C, D and zinc are all suppose to be good at strengthening the immune system, without causing an imbalance.
 
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Maybe you're on to something, Jimbo. My wife gets 103 F. temperatures while I get 99 to a hundred from the same virus. She coughed for seven weeks from a respiratory flu last fall while I had a tickle for three days which was washed away in minutes by diatomaceous earth.

One thing that has backfired is Elderberry!!!

Started feeling really adrenally weak on my third day of Elderberry tea and Sambucus Elderberry extract. Drank it three times a day for three days. Also became itchy, like with histamines. The tip off was copious repeat urination after drinking, as with a diuretic. A few searches revealed...

1. Elderberry IS a diuretic, and probably messed with my electrolyte balance.

2. The mechanism by which it famously boosts one's immune is STIMULATING THE PRODUCTION OF PRO-INFLAMMATORY CYTOKINES. Not good. I wonder if that causes more downregulating of mitochondrial function and fatigue.

3. For those with auto-immunity like Hashis they also say caution is indicated.

I guess maybe a shot or two if you're coming down with something is enough for me...
 

Wishful

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Yes, elderberry makes my ME symptoms much worse, which to me indicates that ME symptoms are at least partly due to sensitivity to cytokines. Elderberry might actually reduce the time to fully defeat a virus, but might also make your symptoms more severe while it's doing so.
 
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Yeah, I don't know about our illness and this virus. I also haven't seen that over active immune systems are at high risk, like MS or arthritis. Since we have a completely unusual combo of over active and under active and mal adapted immune systems, who knows! When I do get sick, I get much sicker than who ever gave it to me. But, since I'm isolated, I don't get sick often. Also, just washing your hands when you come home in general, helps people not get flus and colds etc. I think overweight, older men are the largest risk group but anyone can get it. Even healthy young, fit people have died, just it's more rare than the old men. It's so sad to see the older population dying all alone and knowing that so many people just don't care if they die or have public leaders said they want them to sacrifice themselves so that we all can go outside again. Really makes me glad I didn't have children. Humans are just.........so.........unwise, unkind and selfish in general. With some lovely exceptions.

With any virus or new illness, there will always be subsets of people not prone to it. There is even a small group of people who were immune to HIV/AIDS. It's why some people who had loads of unprotected sex with many partners didn't get sick. There was some virus that had made some people immune but it was a small number of the population. There could be genetic reasons or other kinds of prior exposures that make some not get sick or why some get mild symptoms too. Just think of how we first learned about the milkmaids who didn't get smallpox and how that brought us one one of the greatest medical advances of all time, the vaccine.

I've known people who got MERSA while sick with ME and they did well, so.....it's good to remember that just because we do have a terrible, serious illness, we may not be in dire straits if we do get sick. Just take care of yourselves as best you can and try not to be around people as much as you can.

I edited this. Saw I wrote MESA rather than MERSA before. lol Maybe I didn't even spell mersa right, but you know that super deadly bacteria infection that kills loads of people? So yeah, had a friend with a pretty bad case of me/cfs, couldn't work or live any kind of normal life but could get out. She survived mersa that she got as some complication of some other illness and she wasn't brought down by it, didn't even bring her to a lower level of functioning overall after she recovered. So, I'm not one to live in hope, I live in reality as it's much more productive but I do think that we don't know if we are high risk. But, I say, live like you are high risk, because it's the smart thing to do.
 
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they think that covid supresses parts of the innate immune response, specifically, monocytes. i don't know how me/cfs affects monocytes but i am going to take a lot of hot baths followed by cold showers.
Really interesting video, thanks for posting it. According to this study below, monocytes in ME/CFS are increased. Which makes sense from my point of view.

Given that I haven't had a cold or a flu in 10-15 years or longer. Also I'm pretty sure I had covid 19 up until about a week ago, symptoms were very mild and it was 90% gone in 8 days.

Compared to the other immune cells, monocytes were significantly elevated in the CFS/ME patients in comparison to the controls. These results suggest further highlight the role of impaired immune function in the pathogenesis of CFS/ME.
Source
 
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Many of us are house bound. If you don't come into contact with ant viruses how are you going to get sick?

I ONLY get sick from my colleagues at work. I got tonsillitis from my former boss in December. Immune response lasted 10 days. Then I got the full blown virus which lasted with symptoms 14 days. So 34 altogether. Then I got a very bad head cold from a French colleague in January. That only lasted about 10 days. Then I got a weird sore throat with fatigue and dizziness that lasted about 3 to 4 weeks from my nhs nurse friend. Now I've been self isolating for 2 weeks. In the last week I've managed to get rid of all the crap that was in my body and subsequently I feel normal. I'll feel almost normal (when not exerting myself) from now until October 1st. This is always the way. I'll have a dip in june/July I've no idea why.

But being isolated means I never come into contact with any nasties. Doesn't mean my immune system is strong as it's not.

To be brutally honest I think your underlying health conditions with your ME are a higher predictive factor of your overall illness with the flu or covid. As I have asthma anyway and had post viral fatigue twice in my twenties. I feel that somehow puts me at greater risk wirh covid19. I do not think that ME would make it any worse or better but that's because I actually have asthma and auto immune illness like chrons and RA run in my family.
 
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i've been social distancing too, but feeling lots of malaise, odd aches and pains, chills, lung issues, etc and i initially chalked it up to me/cfs and quitting cannabis. however, it turns out that the last person i had contact with, my ex wife and friend, came down with a likely case of corona virus. so, the increased lung pain and mucus is likely not an exacerbation of asthma/copd due to pollen or having to switch from qvar to flovent steroid inhaler due to insurance change.

this is starting to look to me like covid with a 2 week incubation period. my symptoms are:

1. night sweats (but i get these when i stop smoking cannabis)
2. day sweats (dripping down my sides right now - but i get these normally sometimes, just not like this)
3. intense malaise that passes after a bit (this is not like PEM which does not come and go like this for me)
4. tiredness and weakness (again not really like what PEM causes, for example i'm not tired and wired which would be more normal for me, and the weakness is different than the more neuronal version i get with PEM)
5. mucus coming up from my lungs
6. lung pain that is distinct from copd (it's also in the right lobe where i have much better lung function and normally i have only occasional pain only in the left lobe)
7. brain fog (this is similar to me/cfs)
8. headache (but not a migraine - which is more normal for me)
9. a mild runny, stuffy nose (even tho i am using flonase)
10. mild throat pain (i very rarely get the throat/lymph node pain that is common in me/cfs)
11. oximeter is 97/98 when resting but it is usually 100 and it's 94-96 when up and doing things which is also low for me
12. myalgia that is distinct from me/cfs (in places where i normally don't have pain)

so, i think i have covid. i'm going to call the consulting nurse but it's likely they won't test me because i am not that bad off right now. i know that i need to be vigilant because if this is covid, it can progress quickly.

i am hoping that the hot baths and the me/cfs disordered monocytes (if that's true for me) helps keep this to a minimal course (knock on wood).
 
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My concern is the post viral effects of COVID on individuals with CFS, causing an exacerbation of symptoms. I doubt I'm any less vulnerable to the virus but I sure I am more vulnerable to the after effects.
 
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I have gotten a bit of information from two ME/CFS specialists - Paul Cheney and Susan Levine - about ME/CFS patients who have contracted presumptive Covid-19.

Paul Cheney, who still does phone consults with some of his former patients and who sends emails to those who subscribe to his "concierge service", says that seven of his ME/CFS patients have had Covid-19 so far. Six of those seven had "mild-moderate illness", with none of them sick enough to need hospitalization.

I spoke to his administrative assistant/office manager, who said that one of the seven patients, a woman in her 70s in Seattle, had a worse course of illness -- bad shortness of breath/air hunger, along with severe malaise, with symptoms persisting for a month. In ordinary circumstances she should have been hospitalized, but she was refused admission by paramedics and 911 operators, possibly because hospitals in the Seattle area were overwhelmed and were engaging in triage. Fortunately, this patient is apparently now recovering well.

Susan Levine, who is based in New York, hasn't said much about how her ME/CFS patients are faring with Covid-19, but she did mention that a couple of patients who are on methotrexate for comorbid autoimmune conditions had a surprisingly mild course of illness. She found this surprising, and guessed that methotrexate might somehow suppress cytokines, sort of like Actemra.

So it doesn't sound to me as if ME/CFS is protective against contracting a mild-moderate version of Covid, but it is reassuring that nobody has yet ended up in the ICU or dying.

All that said, long-term ME/CFS patients tend to accumulate comorbid conditions. Nancy Klimas told me in 2018 that some of her long-term patients progress to common variable immune deficiency (CVID). Paul Cheney says that many of his patients eventually develop insulin resistance and have high HgbA1C levels, though not full-blown type 2 diabetes. David Systrom has found that about 40% of ME/CFS patients have small fiber neuropathy, which affects how the autonomic nervous system functions. Immune deficiency, insulin intolerance, and small fiber neuropathy (at least in diabetic patients) all have been linked to a more severe course of Covid-19 among non-ME/CFS patients. Based on this, my sense is that young, recent onset ME/CFS patients may be better off than long-term ME/CFS patients who have developed additional health problems along the way.