• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

CD4 count

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,875
hi all. wanted to put a couple of questions out there. my sedimentation rate is high, but i have read it is supposed to be low in CFS. but then in other places i read that it is high in inflammation....does anyone know about this?

also. my recent cd4 count was 560. the one before that was 870. is this very bad? doesnt look good to me for it to be that low....i thought it was mostly NK cell function that goes down with CFS?


thanks
xoxo
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
10,089
Location
australia (brisbane)
hi all. wanted to put a couple of questions out there. my sedimentation rate is high, but i have read it is supposed to be low in CFS. but then in other places i read that it is high in inflammation....does anyone know about this?

also. my recent cd4 count was 560. the one before that was 870. is this very bad? doesnt look good to me for it to be that low....i thought it was mostly NK cell function that goes down with CFS?


thanks
xoxo

Hi Daff,
What are the reference ranges, different labs and countries use different ranges etc.
The bond uni study that are studying nk function have also found that cd8 function is low as well, so maybe other cd lymphocytes dont function well even though the numbers can be within the reference ranges.

cheers!!!
 

Overstressed

Senior Member
Messages
406
Location
Belgium
Hi Daffodil,

CD4 counts tend to fluctuate, that's absolutely normal. To get a picture of how well your immune system functions, it's better to check your CD4/CD8 ratio. That gives you a much better picture.


Best regards,
OS.
 

Timaca

Senior Member
Messages
792
My CD4 count is usually below 400. My CD19 is also low (33 last time).

I'm guessing it may be related to HSV1. The only time my CD4 was above 500 was when my HSV1 IgG was lower (usually it's as high as the lab measures).

I may talk to my doctor about adding this in: http://www.amazon.com/Immune-Assist...MX86/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1329491844&sr=8-2

Because I read this interesting abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22135886

We are also upping my valtrex dose to try to combat the HSV1.

Best, Timaca
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,875
thanks guys. timaca..i guess i always associated low cd4 with HIV...thank you, i am less worried now, knowing it is common in CFS.
 

Timaca

Senior Member
Messages
792
Your numbers are not low enough to indicate HIV. However, you could always get tested to be sure. I do not lead a lifestyle that would cause HIV, but I've been tested for it twice. Because my numbers are so low and because I have family members who have done dental work on HIV patients in Africa....
 

lobba123

Senior Member
Messages
250
low cd4 are caused by almost all cronic infections by almost all viruses and bacteria according to severity, immune suppression is also found on final stages of cancers, so looking at cd4 is not useful.as overstress said cd4/cd8 is much better, i have only cronic hbv and i do have very low cd4/cd8 and low cd4 percentage but not hiv.gcmaf may have reversed all that today after about one year but i will recheck at the end of therapy, cd counts are expensive and not so useful

Your numbers are not low enough to indicate HIV. However, you could always get tested to be sure. I do not lead a lifestyle that would cause HIV, but I've been tested for it twice. Because my numbers are so low and because I have family members who have done dental work on HIV patients in Africa....
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,875
thanks guys. i just do not for the life of me understand why there is no data on how gcmaf affects cd4 or nk cell function. why didnt anyone get these tests done??? 100's are on gcmaf now...maybe 1000's.

i have been checked for HIV multiple times too, just for the heck of it.

healthy people have a CD4 count 800 - 1300 or something i think......its rare that an HIV+ person would have it over 1000.
 

Charles555nc

Senior Member
Messages
572
Yamamoto, the creater of GcMAF, did not pursue a patent on it. The people who decided to keep GcMAF alive would have to finance such tests. I posted on your old thread :D
 

Dan_USAAZ

Senior Member
Messages
174
Location
Phoenix, AZ
thanks guys. i just do not for the life of me understand why there is no data on how gcmaf affects cd4 or nk cell function. why didnt anyone get these tests done??? 100's are on gcmaf now...maybe 1000's.

i have been checked for HIV multiple times too, just for the heck of it.

healthy people have a CD4 count 800 - 1300 or something i think......its rare that an HIV+ person would have it over 1000.

As I recall, the papers published by Yamamoto and Ruggiero, when treating HIV and cancer patients showed substantial (2x to 4x) improvement to CD4 levels.
These papers can be found on the internet.
 

Charles555nc

Senior Member
Messages
572
Yamamoto wants nothing to do with GcMAF except that he doesnt want people claiming he helped produce each brand's version of it. Thats the last I heard of it about 8 months ago. The last manufacter I bought GcMAF from, even admitted Yamamoto had falsified some of his findings. But the individual companies producing GcMAF may be improving upon his design...
 

Overstressed

Senior Member
Messages
406
Location
Belgium
Yamamoto wants nothing to do with GcMAF except that he doesnt want people claiming he helped produce each brand's version of it. Thats the last I heard of it about 8 months ago. The last manufacter I bought GcMAF from, even admitted Yamamoto had falsified some of his findings. But the individual companies producing GcMAF may be improving upon his design...

Hi Charles, Daffodil,

can you tell us what the manufacturer said and what lies are going around ? I don't know anything about falsification of the tests...

Best regards,
OS.
 
Messages
17
low cd4 are caused by almost all cronic infections by almost all viruses and bacteria according to severity, immune suppression is also found on final stages of cancers, so looking at cd4 is not useful.as overstress said cd4/cd8 is much better, i have only cronic hbv and i do have very low cd4/cd8 and low cd4 percentage but not hiv.gcmaf may have reversed all that today after about one year but i will recheck at the end of therapy, cd counts are expensive and not so useful

Hi lobba,

can you say what doctor is treating you with GcMAF? If you can't, I'd appreciate if you could pm me.
I'm looking for a doctor...
Thanks