CBS Protocol
- Thread starter Bdeep86
- Start date
I'm glad to hear that it works like this. I've been taking it with every meal, and it's kind of a pain in the ass to have it with me at all times. And then you forget that you still have 2 caps in your pocket when you toss your jeans into the laundry..
xJhuez
By no means do I consider myself an expert on any of this so take this all with a grain of salt or vitamin C or whatever
I take the pancreatic enzymes for the simple fact that (in my logic) the pancreas is your digestive enzyme factory. The pancreatic duct, which dumps digestive enzymes in to the duodemum, just after the food leaves the stomachs, is where I believe the support should be rendered. The duodenum is where the majority of the nutrient absorption occurs. Here is also where the gal bladder and or bile duct (if you don't have a GB) dumps bile into the duodenum and emulsifys the lipids or fatty acids of your intake. So all of the macro nutrient "digesters", Lipases (fat digesters) Proteases (AA digesters), amalyases (carb digesters) and nucleases (nucleic acid digesters) are released into the duodenum from your pancrease to break down your food into raw materials to be absorbed by your body to be used by your genes (eventually) to build cellular structures and functional proteins (like enzymes). The pancrease also supports glucose metabolisms (which is pretty important) and for someone like me who is a sympathetic driven (type A) person I tend to put the alpha cells (glucagon forming cells) and beta cells (insulin producing cells) to hard work becuase of the hormones I tend to over use in the sympathectic capacity. So, for me it is only prudent to attempt to support this "hard at work organ". Now, from what I understand, these need to be taken prior to meals (empty stomach) and need to be on board for at least 30 min to and hour in order for them to get into the blood and make their way back to the pancrease (please don't ask for the physiology on this b/c I really do not know but I will look into it). Anyway, if you do take them with food they will act like digestive enzymes, which won't hurt you, but they will not make it to support your pancreatic tissue, and therefore your natural digestion.
Just my two sense, if anyone know more or this please chime in becuase I am alway learning
AVS
By no means do I consider myself an expert on any of this so take this all with a grain of salt or vitamin C or whatever
I take the pancreatic enzymes for the simple fact that (in my logic) the pancreas is your digestive enzyme factory. The pancreatic duct, which dumps digestive enzymes in to the duodemum, just after the food leaves the stomachs, is where I believe the support should be rendered. The duodenum is where the majority of the nutrient absorption occurs. Here is also where the gal bladder and or bile duct (if you don't have a GB) dumps bile into the duodenum and emulsifys the lipids or fatty acids of your intake. So all of the macro nutrient "digesters", Lipases (fat digesters) Proteases (AA digesters), amalyases (carb digesters) and nucleases (nucleic acid digesters) are released into the duodenum from your pancrease to break down your food into raw materials to be absorbed by your body to be used by your genes (eventually) to build cellular structures and functional proteins (like enzymes). The pancrease also supports glucose metabolisms (which is pretty important) and for someone like me who is a sympathetic driven (type A) person I tend to put the alpha cells (glucagon forming cells) and beta cells (insulin producing cells) to hard work becuase of the hormones I tend to over use in the sympathectic capacity. So, for me it is only prudent to attempt to support this "hard at work organ". Now, from what I understand, these need to be taken prior to meals (empty stomach) and need to be on board for at least 30 min to and hour in order for them to get into the blood and make their way back to the pancrease (please don't ask for the physiology on this b/c I really do not know but I will look into it). Anyway, if you do take them with food they will act like digestive enzymes, which won't hurt you, but they will not make it to support your pancreatic tissue, and therefore your natural digestion.
Just my two sense, if anyone know more or this please chime in becuase I am alway learning
AVS
xjhuez
I also wanted to mention that all of the other products that you are looking into, I don't believe would hurt either. I take a probiotic (away from the pancreatic enzymes) and on occation a digestive enzyme with food so I wouldn't discount digestive support from other angles as well. Also, I wanted to ask about Betaine HCL, I haven't heard much on this support?
Thanks
AVS
I also wanted to mention that all of the other products that you are looking into, I don't believe would hurt either. I take a probiotic (away from the pancreatic enzymes) and on occation a digestive enzyme with food so I wouldn't discount digestive support from other angles as well. Also, I wanted to ask about Betaine HCL, I haven't heard much on this support?
Thanks
AVS
Thanks for the great answer.
Betaine HCL increases stomach acidity. I did a very simple (and possibly useless) test last week with backing soda - http://www.drdebe.com/stomach-acid-assessment.html. I did it 3 mornings consecutively and I didn't produce a singe belch at any point. Apparently this demonstrates I have low stomach acid, but it's not exactly convincing, only indicative, and I've yet to actually try Betaine HCL.
Betaine HCL increases stomach acidity. I did a very simple (and possibly useless) test last week with backing soda - http://www.drdebe.com/stomach-acid-assessment.html. I did it 3 mornings consecutively and I didn't produce a singe belch at any point. Apparently this demonstrates I have low stomach acid, but it's not exactly convincing, only indicative, and I've yet to actually try Betaine HCL.
Hi AVS. I've been following the GAPS diet since Jan 2012. Developed by neurologist Natasha Campbell McBride to help her autistic son, healing the gut is the top priority. She advocates HCL at beginning of meal, when digestion needs help, plus ox bile at end of meal. I was initially using a mixed digestive enzyme, but have recently switched to ox bile on its own. This gives me a larger dose, and is much better on the budget. I also take apple cider vinegar before meals. My tendency has been toward alkalinity, but recently when I felt heartburn, which I'd been treating w/ apple cider vinegar, I tested urine and was acidic. So I used 1/4 tsp bicarb in water, and it shifted to alkaline. I'm only using bicarb as needed.
You are SHMT1 heterozygote. 33% of all humans are heterozygote. 40% of all Europeans and 43% of African descent are heterozygote. So I have no idea why a heterozygote SHMT1 is a "first priority" mutation. There is a big difference between heterozygote and homozygote.
You are homozygous CBS A360A. You are wild type for the other more important SNP. Even Dr Yasko herself downplays the A360A from what I have seen in sample reports when it is by itself. To my knowledge her and other in her camp and those like Dr Roberts are the only ones who even think A360A has any relevance and they do so without consideration of the overall haplotype. I personally think treating a A360A heterozygote is very peculiar.
If you want the likeliest scientific rationale, then I would suggest focusing on MTHFR gene and proper methylation. Your SHMT is heterozygote like almost 40% of Americans and your CBS is A360A. Big whoop imo.
However, to make sure for CBS there is no harm in getting your serum and urine taurine levels, serum ammonia (urine ammonia levels is borderline quackery sorry), and test urine sulfates with test strips. If those variables are in bounds then trans-sulfuration flux is not a big deal. If not, then it is something to address but honestly it is not the SNPs that have been tested and observed. It is either others we do not know about or epigenetic factors. My point is if you are worried about CBS being out of control, which is not impossible then do the tests to verify it. On the other hand the 10x upregulation meme perpetuated by Dr Yasko and her followers is an absolute colossal error. So don't let that scare you.
Many of us on here with CBS mutations if we restricted protein to the levels Dr Yasko suggested for example would get crushed for other reasons. It is too complicated to distill into single SNPs most times. That being said you may want to try a low free thiol diet to see if you are sulfur sensitive.
At some point we cross over from science to belief. Both have merit. Personally I am both a physicist and bioinformaticist and a spiritual person. I see nothing wrong with making choices based on belief but then just make sure you go into it with eyes wide open that it is a choice based on trust and belief and not science. Some on these forums have wonderful anecdotes on treatment protocols. But their success is not always transferable.
You are homozygous CBS A360A. You are wild type for the other more important SNP. Even Dr Yasko herself downplays the A360A from what I have seen in sample reports when it is by itself. To my knowledge her and other in her camp and those like Dr Roberts are the only ones who even think A360A has any relevance and they do so without consideration of the overall haplotype. I personally think treating a A360A heterozygote is very peculiar.
If you want the likeliest scientific rationale, then I would suggest focusing on MTHFR gene and proper methylation. Your SHMT is heterozygote like almost 40% of Americans and your CBS is A360A. Big whoop imo.
However, to make sure for CBS there is no harm in getting your serum and urine taurine levels, serum ammonia (urine ammonia levels is borderline quackery sorry), and test urine sulfates with test strips. If those variables are in bounds then trans-sulfuration flux is not a big deal. If not, then it is something to address but honestly it is not the SNPs that have been tested and observed. It is either others we do not know about or epigenetic factors. My point is if you are worried about CBS being out of control, which is not impossible then do the tests to verify it. On the other hand the 10x upregulation meme perpetuated by Dr Yasko and her followers is an absolute colossal error. So don't let that scare you.
Many of us on here with CBS mutations if we restricted protein to the levels Dr Yasko suggested for example would get crushed for other reasons. It is too complicated to distill into single SNPs most times. That being said you may want to try a low free thiol diet to see if you are sulfur sensitive.
At some point we cross over from science to belief. Both have merit. Personally I am both a physicist and bioinformaticist and a spiritual person. I see nothing wrong with making choices based on belief but then just make sure you go into it with eyes wide open that it is a choice based on trust and belief and not science. Some on these forums have wonderful anecdotes on treatment protocols. But their success is not always transferable.
Just got my 23andMe back and I'm CBS C699T HTZ. I know it's hard for anyone to quantify the difference
between HTZ and HMZ other than HMZ is worse. Does anyone have any idea of the difference in effect on
up-reg of the transsulfuration pathway, cysteine levels and other factors between these 2 types????
between HTZ and HMZ other than HMZ is worse. Does anyone have any idea of the difference in effect on
up-reg of the transsulfuration pathway, cysteine levels and other factors between these 2 types????
If you read my "couple of questions" thread you will see in the articles I linked you will see that the heterozygous CBS C699T has almost no impact on trans-sulfuration flux post methionine loading. In addition if you check out this link:
http://browser.1000genomes.org/Homo...0-44485850;v=rs234706;vdb=variation;vf=135834
You will see that heterozygous CBS is there for 34% of all Americans and even higher for other ethnic groups.
Many on here believe the heterozygote CBS is a big problem for them. I don't know what to say other than the data, I offered you. But I will say I wish I was heterozygous instead of being homozygous. The bump in ammonia when I try to eat a steak is not fun in terms of body pain. Sigh.
http://browser.1000genomes.org/Homo...0-44485850;v=rs234706;vdb=variation;vf=135834
You will see that heterozygous CBS is there for 34% of all Americans and even higher for other ethnic groups.
Many on here believe the heterozygote CBS is a big problem for them. I don't know what to say other than the data, I offered you. But I will say I wish I was heterozygous instead of being homozygous. The bump in ammonia when I try to eat a steak is not fun in terms of body pain. Sigh.
I don't understand SNPs very well so I'm not sure if this will be useful or not, but I was going over the methylation study done with Rich's protocol and I found a section on CBS C699T.
http://www.mecfs-vic.org.au/sites/w...Article-2009VanKonynenburg-TrtMethylStudy.pdf
Figure 4 shows the distributions of the values of the sum of S-adenosylmethionine and Sadenosylhomocysteine (the two methylation cycle metabolites measured in this study) as a function of time on treatment for patients who do not have the CBS C699T polymorphism as well as those who are heterozygous and homozygous for it. As can be seen, those having either one or two copies of this polymorphism have lower values of SAM + SAH than those who do not have it. The differences are statistically significant (p<0.04) between the (-/-) and the (+/-) groups for all three times.
Figure 4. Sum of SAM (RBC) and SAH (RBC) for patients who do not have the CBS C699T polymorphism (-/-), those who are heterozygous (+/-), and those who are homozygous (+/+), at 0, 3, and 6 months of treatment. The difference between the (-/-) and the (+/+) groups is statistically significant at 0 months (p<0.04), but not at 3 and 6 months. (Even though the sums of SAM and SAH were lower at all three times for the (+/+) group, there were only two patients in this group, so the statistical power was low in comparing it to the (-/-) group.)
http://www.mecfs-vic.org.au/sites/w...Article-2009VanKonynenburg-TrtMethylStudy.pdf
Figure 4 shows the distributions of the values of the sum of S-adenosylmethionine and Sadenosylhomocysteine (the two methylation cycle metabolites measured in this study) as a function of time on treatment for patients who do not have the CBS C699T polymorphism as well as those who are heterozygous and homozygous for it. As can be seen, those having either one or two copies of this polymorphism have lower values of SAM + SAH than those who do not have it. The differences are statistically significant (p<0.04) between the (-/-) and the (+/-) groups for all three times.
Figure 4. Sum of SAM (RBC) and SAH (RBC) for patients who do not have the CBS C699T polymorphism (-/-), those who are heterozygous (+/-), and those who are homozygous (+/+), at 0, 3, and 6 months of treatment. The difference between the (-/-) and the (+/+) groups is statistically significant at 0 months (p<0.04), but not at 3 and 6 months. (Even though the sums of SAM and SAH were lower at all three times for the (+/+) group, there were only two patients in this group, so the statistical power was low in comparing it to the (-/-) group.)