Case Histories Required to Prove That GET Has Harmed ME Patients

Countrygirl

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Please Provide Your Evidence if You Have Been Harmed By GET.


Dear All,

Yesterday, after NICE announced the present debacle, I was phoned by a doctor who needs case histories to prove that GET harms patients. The best evidence is that the patient was mild/moderate and, as a result of GET, became severe and required a feeding tube. We do know some paediatric cases with this particular history, but we need many more, both adults and children. Also, we need any who can provide witnesses to their deterioration as a result of GET. For example, you were no longer able to be employed following a course of GET whereas you could cope with at least a part-time job before.

The case histories can be from any country.


It is important that someone witnesses your deterioration and so please be aware that this must be able to withstand legal scrutiny.


PM me, please, with your history and then I will give you my email as the doctor will need your contact details. Please disseminate the request to anyone who could provide us with a case history.

I will then produce a file of histories and forward them.

Here is one I received this morning which I share with permission.

She was one of Prof Sharpe's patients and it makes for interesting reading.



In summer 1990 I had been ill for nearly 6 years, slowly deteriorating following an initial virus, finally diagnosed with ME Easter 1989. From September 1990 to June/July 1991 I had CBT/GET with Michael Sharpe as an outpatient at The Warneford hospital in Oxford, under the umbrella of Tim Peto (infectious diseases) at the John Radcliffe hospital who was at my initial appointment (insinuating maybe my parents were helping perpetuate my illness at that point), and involved in my hospital admission when I got so ill at the end. I wasn’t in one of his trials, I just missed the timing.

I was moderate/severe when I started, stabilised a bit on CBT/GET initially (because they made me reduce activity right down to what I could do on my worst days to find a sustainable baseline which I was able to maintain, before starting to increase) but as I was pushed to increase activity I started to relapse regularly until eventually, 9 months later, I was so ill my GP demanded that they (Tim Peto, infectious diseases, Michael Sharpe, psychiatry) admitted me to hospital. I was an in patient on the infectious diseases ward in The Churchill hospital Oxford for about a week in June or July 1991, during which time they basically ignored me except for a few occasions when they came into my room to tell me off, blame me, and accuse me of not wanting to get better.

Started CBT and GET with Sharpe Sept 1990. Under him until the following June/July when I ended up being admitted to hospital but at that point hadn’t seen him in person for a few months as I’d got too ill to attend appointments. We’d had phone calls ongoing though to continue the treatment. Except that I was too ill to do it by then.

I was called a ‘perfect patient’ by Sharpe near the start as I engaged so well, and appeared to make some progress. I’d been an Oxford student and loved my course and was desperate to get well enough to go back and complete my degree, abandoned because of increasingly severe ME after my 3rd year of 4. At first Sharpe seemed to respect me, even discussed his theories with me, and asked me to read stuff for him. But I soon hit a wall physically and his attitude changed dramatically when I kept relapsing instead of improving.

Their treatment of me when I got severely ill and ended up as an inpatient in June or July 1991 (on Peto’s infectious diseases ward at The Churchill hospital, Oxford, on the demand of my GP, horrified at how ill I had become) was unbelievable. Abuse certainly. Some things they said to me:

‘You are messing up our statistics’ (both of them)
‘We’ve invested a lot of time in you, you owe it to us to get better.’ (Peto)
‘You need to try harder.’ (Peto)
‘There’s nothing physically wrong with you.’ (Both of them)

Sharpe sat down by my hospital bed and told me that even though I thought I wanted to go back and finish my degree, the reason I’d got worse not better was because I was subconsciously afraid of getting better, because if I did recover I’d then have to go back to Oxford to complete my degree and would then have to face my (invented by him) fear of not getting a First. Being ill, according to him, gave me a good excuse not to face my supposed fear of failure. Nothing I could say would ever convince him I’d never had any ambition to get a First, and I’d always been quite happy with the 2:1 grades I’d been getting.

At one point earlier on had Sharpe made me do a perfectionism test. I knew he was trying to prove I was ill because I was pathologically perfectionistic (I wasn’t. I was a high achiever and liked to do my best, but good enough was always good enough, and I had no fear of failure, my identity and value didn’t depend on academic success, and I had no feelings of pressure from anyone to get a First or any hope/dream/expectation of doing so.) I deliberately subverted the questionnaire to score really, really low on perfectionism to see what he would say. He first misinterpreted the scores and declared it was proof I had a major problem with perfectionism. When I pointed out it actually suggested the opposite he chucked it aside and said we shouldn’t pay too much attention to such questionnaires they weren’t very good indicators. Disregarding evidence that didn’t fit his theories from an early stage in his career.

The last thing Michale Sharpe said to me, as he was walking out of my hospital room for the final time in 1991 was: “We will be proved right; our careers depend on it.’ It is engraved on my memory. It was devastating - that their theories, careers and professional reputations, were more important than having any interest in what was really wrong with their patients. Of course subsequent events have proved this to be true.

In 1990 I was moderate/severe physically and had never had any mental health issues. When they had finished with me I was physically iller than I had ever been before, and mentally and emotionally broken. Suicidal for the first time in my life. I put my all into doing everything they said and trying to get well and when it failed they abused, accused, and blamed me. I was 24. It took a lot of therapy to undo the harm they had done mentally. Physically there was no coming back.

Now 54 and still severely ill with ME though I’ve had a few moderate patches and did eventually finish my degree from my bed, very slowly.

I heard Sharpe’s voice on BBC radio 4 the other year, when he was supposedly retiring from the ME field, for the first time since my hospital stay in 1991, and just hearing him left me shaking and crying, as the trauma resurfaced. I couldn’t believe I could be so badly affected by him nearly 30 years later.

Of course I can’t prove any of the above though there must be medical records of my hospital admission and my current GP is supportive and might be able to locate them. It’s just my word on what happened so I’m not sure it is enough to stand up in court. But if it is ever useful to anyone fighting them I’m happy to be a part of it. Despite everything I’m a pretty well-balanced, intelligent, educated, and well-grounded person who would make a credible witness.










=AZUOlsFUqd3Yv8Kv7HMWcT_WUedX9vqoy9dBclBZct6oA5whmGCMaWFeqMKJnXCSQ5KB2RBU5_glkLs8eYCw-2o__kaDj8AgBlg1yXI7VZ0_twvTrnyQFapaThe2IaxClAs&__tn__=R]-R']
 

Inara

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@Countrygirl, I find this interesting. I considered taking legal steps for a while now, more from an international human rights and crimes aspect. In this respect having witness reports would be very important, and I played with that idea for a while. I'm happy to see someone is realizing it. Can you provide more information on what the doctor plans, and is it somehow possible to share ideas and resources or even to collaborate? I'm from Germany.
You can PM me if needed. I'd be delighted.
 

Countrygirl

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@Countrygirl, I find this interesting. I considered taking legal steps for a while now, more from an international human rights and crimes aspect. In this respect having witness reports would be very important, and I played with that idea for a while. I'm happy to see someone is realizing it. Can you provide more information on what the doctor plans, and is it somehow possible to share ideas and resources or even to collaborate? I'm from Germany.
You can PM me if needed. I'd be delighted.
We are just collating evidence at the moment, @Inara. I cannot say more than that.
 
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Please Provide Your Evidence if You Have Been Harmed By GET.


Dear All,

Yesterday, after NICE announced the present debacle, I was phoned by a doctor who needs case histories to prove that GET harms patients. The best evidence is that the patient was mild/moderate and, as a result of GET, became severe and required a feeding tube. We do know some paediatric cases with this particular history, but we need many more, both adults and children. Also, we need any who can provide witnesses to their deterioration as a result of GET. For example, you were no longer able to be employed following a course of GET whereas you could cope with at least a part-time job before.

The case histories can be from any country.


It is important that someone witnesses your deterioration and so please be aware that this must be able to withstand legal scrutiny.


PM me, please, with your history and then I will give you my email as the doctor will need your contact details. Please disseminate the request to anyone who could provide us with a case history.

I will then produce a file of histories and forward them.

Here is one I received this morning which I share with permission.

She was one of Prof Sharpe's patients and it makes for interesting reading.



In summer 1990 I had been ill for nearly 6 years, slowly deteriorating following an initial virus, finally diagnosed with ME Easter 1989. From September 1990 to June/July 1991 I had CBT/GET with Michael Sharpe as an outpatient at The Warneford hospital in Oxford, under the umbrella of Tim Peto (infectious diseases) at the John Radcliffe hospital who was at my initial appointment (insinuating maybe my parents were helping perpetuate my illness at that point), and involved in my hospital admission when I got so ill at the end. I wasn’t in one of his trials, I just missed the timing.

I was moderate/severe when I started, stabilised a bit on CBT/GET initially (because they made me reduce activity right down to what I could do on my worst days to find a sustainable baseline which I was able to maintain, before starting to increase) but as I was pushed to increase activity I started to relapse regularly until eventually, 9 months later, I was so ill my GP demanded that they (Tim Peto, infectious diseases, Michael Sharpe, psychiatry) admitted me to hospital. I was an in patient on the infectious diseases ward in The Churchill hospital Oxford for about a week in June or July 1991, during which time they basically ignored me except for a few occasions when they came into my room to tell me off, blame me, and accuse me of not wanting to get better.

Started CBT and GET with Sharpe Sept 1990. Under him until the following June/July when I ended up being admitted to hospital but at that point hadn’t seen him in person for a few months as I’d got too ill to attend appointments. We’d had phone calls ongoing though to continue the treatment. Except that I was too ill to do it by then.

I was called a ‘perfect patient’ by Sharpe near the start as I engaged so well, and appeared to make some progress. I’d been an Oxford student and loved my course and was desperate to get well enough to go back and complete my degree, abandoned because of increasingly severe ME after my 3rd year of 4. At first Sharpe seemed to respect me, even discussed his theories with me, and asked me to read stuff for him. But I soon hit a wall physically and his attitude changed dramatically when I kept relapsing instead of improving.

Their treatment of me when I got severely ill and ended up as an inpatient in June or July 1991 (on Peto’s infectious diseases ward at The Churchill hospital, Oxford, on the demand of my GP, horrified at how ill I had become) was unbelievable. Abuse certainly. Some things they said to me:

‘You are messing up our statistics’ (both of them)
‘We’ve invested a lot of time in you, you owe it to us to get better.’ (Peto)
‘You need to try harder.’ (Peto)
‘There’s nothing physically wrong with you.’ (Both of them)

Sharpe sat down by my hospital bed and told me that even though I thought I wanted to go back and finish my degree, the reason I’d got worse not better was because I was subconsciously afraid of getting better, because if I did recover I’d then have to go back to Oxford to complete my degree and would then have to face my (invented by him) fear of not getting a First. Being ill, according to him, gave me a good excuse not to face my supposed fear of failure. Nothing I could say would ever convince him I’d never had any ambition to get a First, and I’d always been quite happy with the 2:1 grades I’d been getting.

At one point earlier on had Sharpe made me do a perfectionism test. I knew he was trying to prove I was ill because I was pathologically perfectionistic (I wasn’t. I was a high achiever and liked to do my best, but good enough was always good enough, and I had no fear of failure, my identity and value didn’t depend on academic success, and I had no feelings of pressure from anyone to get a First or any hope/dream/expectation of doing so.) I deliberately subverted the questionnaire to score really, really low on perfectionism to see what he would say. He first misinterpreted the scores and declared it was proof I had a major problem with perfectionism. When I pointed out it actually suggested the opposite he chucked it aside and said we shouldn’t pay too much attention to such questionnaires they weren’t very good indicators. Disregarding evidence that didn’t fit his theories from an early stage in his career.

The last thing Michale Sharpe said to me, as he was walking out of my hospital room for the final time in 1991 was: “We will be proved right; our careers depend on it.’ It is engraved on my memory. It was devastating - that their theories, careers and professional reputations, were more important than having any interest in what was really wrong with their patients. Of course subsequent events have proved this to be true.

In 1990 I was moderate/severe physically and had never had any mental health issues. When they had finished with me I was physically iller than I had ever been before, and mentally and emotionally broken. Suicidal for the first time in my life. I put my all into doing everything they said and trying to get well and when it failed they abused, accused, and blamed me. I was 24. It took a lot of therapy to undo the harm they had done mentally. Physically there was no coming back.

Now 54 and still severely ill with ME though I’ve had a few moderate patches and did eventually finish my degree from my bed, very slowly.

I heard Sharpe’s voice on BBC radio 4 the other year, when he was supposedly retiring from the ME field, for the first time since my hospital stay in 1991, and just hearing him left me shaking and crying, as the trauma resurfaced. I couldn’t believe I could be so badly affected by him nearly 30 years later.

Of course I can’t prove any of the above though there must be medical records of my hospital admission and my current GP is supportive and might be able to locate them. It’s just my word on what happened so I’m not sure it is enough to stand up in court. But if it is ever useful to anyone fighting them I’m happy to be a part of it. Despite everything I’m a pretty well-balanced, intelligent, educated, and well-grounded person who would make a credible witness.









=AZUOlsFUqd3Yv8Kv7HMWcT_WUedX9vqoy9dBclBZct6oA5whmGCMaWFeqMKJnXCSQ5KB2RBU5_glkLs8eYCw-2o__kaDj8AgBlg1yXI7VZ0_twvTrnyQFapaThe2IaxClAs&__tn__=R]-R']
Please Provide Your Evidence if You Have Been Harmed By GET.


Dear All,

Yesterday, after NICE announced the present debacle, I was phoned by a doctor who needs case histories to prove that GET harms patients. The best evidence is that the patient was mild/moderate and, as a result of GET, became severe and required a feeding tube. We do know some paediatric cases with this particular history, but we need many more, both adults and children. Also, we need any who can provide witnesses to their deterioration as a result of GET. For example, you were no longer able to be employed following a course of GET whereas you could cope with at least a part-time job before.

The case histories can be from any country.


It is important that someone witnesses your deterioration and so please be aware that this must be able to withstand legal scrutiny.


PM me, please, with your history and then I will give you my email as the doctor will need your contact details. Please disseminate the request to anyone who could provide us with a case history.

I will then produce a file of histories and forward them.

Here is one I received this morning which I share with permission.

She was one of Prof Sharpe's patients and it makes for interesting reading.



In summer 1990 I had been ill for nearly 6 years, slowly deteriorating following an initial virus, finally diagnosed with ME Easter 1989. From September 1990 to June/July 1991 I had CBT/GET with Michael Sharpe as an outpatient at The Warneford hospital in Oxford, under the umbrella of Tim Peto (infectious diseases) at the John Radcliffe hospital who was at my initial appointment (insinuating maybe my parents were helping perpetuate my illness at that point), and involved in my hospital admission when I got so ill at the end. I wasn’t in one of his trials, I just missed the timing.

I was moderate/severe when I started, stabilised a bit on CBT/GET initially (because they made me reduce activity right down to what I could do on my worst days to find a sustainable baseline which I was able to maintain, before starting to increase) but as I was pushed to increase activity I started to relapse regularly until eventually, 9 months later, I was so ill my GP demanded that they (Tim Peto, infectious diseases, Michael Sharpe, psychiatry) admitted me to hospital. I was an in patient on the infectious diseases ward in The Churchill hospital Oxford for about a week in June or July 1991, during which time they basically ignored me except for a few occasions when they came into my room to tell me off, blame me, and accuse me of not wanting to get better.

Started CBT and GET with Sharpe Sept 1990. Under him until the following June/July when I ended up being admitted to hospital but at that point hadn’t seen him in person for a few months as I’d got too ill to attend appointments. We’d had phone calls ongoing though to continue the treatment. Except that I was too ill to do it by then.

I was called a ‘perfect patient’ by Sharpe near the start as I engaged so well, and appeared to make some progress. I’d been an Oxford student and loved my course and was desperate to get well enough to go back and complete my degree, abandoned because of increasingly severe ME after my 3rd year of 4. At first Sharpe seemed to respect me, even discussed his theories with me, and asked me to read stuff for him. But I soon hit a wall physically and his attitude changed dramatically when I kept relapsing instead of improving.

Their treatment of me when I got severely ill and ended up as an inpatient in June or July 1991 (on Peto’s infectious diseases ward at The Churchill hospital, Oxford, on the demand of my GP, horrified at how ill I had become) was unbelievable. Abuse certainly. Some things they said to me:

‘You are messing up our statistics’ (both of them)
‘We’ve invested a lot of time in you, you owe it to us to get better.’ (Peto)
‘You need to try harder.’ (Peto)
‘There’s nothing physically wrong with you.’ (Both of them)

Sharpe sat down by my hospital bed and told me that even though I thought I wanted to go back and finish my degree, the reason I’d got worse not better was because I was subconsciously afraid of getting better, because if I did recover I’d then have to go back to Oxford to complete my degree and would then have to face my (invented by him) fear of not getting a First. Being ill, according to him, gave me a good excuse not to face my supposed fear of failure. Nothing I could say would ever convince him I’d never had any ambition to get a First, and I’d always been quite happy with the 2:1 grades I’d been getting.

At one point earlier on had Sharpe made me do a perfectionism test. I knew he was trying to prove I was ill because I was pathologically perfectionistic (I wasn’t. I was a high achiever and liked to do my best, but good enough was always good enough, and I had no fear of failure, my identity and value didn’t depend on academic success, and I had no feelings of pressure from anyone to get a First or any hope/dream/expectation of doing so.) I deliberately subverted the questionnaire to score really, really low on perfectionism to see what he would say. He first misinterpreted the scores and declared it was proof I had a major problem with perfectionism. When I pointed out it actually suggested the opposite he chucked it aside and said we shouldn’t pay too much attention to such questionnaires they weren’t very good indicators. Disregarding evidence that didn’t fit his theories from an early stage in his career.

The last thing Michale Sharpe said to me, as he was walking out of my hospital room for the final time in 1991 was: “We will be proved right; our careers depend on it.’ It is engraved on my memory. It was devastating - that their theories, careers and professional reputations, were more important than having any interest in what was really wrong with their patients. Of course subsequent events have proved this to be true.

In 1990 I was moderate/severe physically and had never had any mental health issues. When they had finished with me I was physically iller than I had ever been before, and mentally and emotionally broken. Suicidal for the first time in my life. I put my all into doing everything they said and trying to get well and when it failed they abused, accused, and blamed me. I was 24. It took a lot of therapy to undo the harm they had done mentally. Physically there was no coming back.

Now 54 and still severely ill with ME though I’ve had a few moderate patches and did eventually finish my degree from my bed, very slowly.

I heard Sharpe’s voice on BBC radio 4 the other year, when he was supposedly retiring from the ME field, for the first time since my hospital stay in 1991, and just hearing him left me shaking and crying, as the trauma resurfaced. I couldn’t believe I could be so badly affected by him nearly 30 years later.

Of course I can’t prove any of the above though there must be medical records of my hospital admission and my current GP is supportive and might be able to locate them. It’s just my word on what happened so I’m not sure it is enough to stand up in court. But if it is ever useful to anyone fighting them I’m happy to be a part of it. Despite everything I’m a pretty well-balanced, intelligent, educated, and well-grounded person who would make a credible witness.









=AZUOlsFUqd3Yv8Kv7HMWcT_WUedX9vqoy9dBclBZct6oA5whmGCMaWFeqMKJnXCSQ5KB2RBU5_glkLs8eYCw-2o__kaDj8AgBlg1yXI7VZ0_twvTrnyQFapaThe2IaxClAs&__tn__=R]-R']
I made a complaint to the GMC chair about my treatment at the West Yorkshire ME Clinic but don't think my case would fit with what is being looked for. All I can say is the best of luck and I would be happy to donate to any crowdfunding that might be needed to support such action.
 

Inara

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We are just collating evidence at the moment, @Inara. I cannot say more than that.
That's a bit sad, although understandable.
Thinking about it, I think the stories can't be just shared with others due to data stuff...so that makes sense.
Still, if collaborators are wished and we share the aim: I'm thinking about crimes against humanity (widespread attack) and human rights violations on a larger scale. A complaint has to be handed in at a national court first - in exceptions the International Criminal Court can be called directly.
I see that chances of success are low, and lawyers would probably advice against it - but I haven't asked yet.

Best wishes to your doctor and thanks for doing it.
 
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Surely it fits into the medical negligence class action lawsuit brief? There not going to legally dish out a war crimes style brief for this sort of case? At any rate no idea how we would conduct that in the UK.

Class actions like these can take decades. Watch Dark Waters for a bit of insight. Although Erin Brokovich is also a decent enough exposure on timeline.
 

Inara

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Surely it fits into the medical negligence class action lawsuit brief?
I don't know about that, but I'm interested if you care to explain.

I honestly don't know if there is any chance re. any lawsuit directed at the ICC. My personal *opinion* is that what I observe re. ME fits international law. It's definitely a human rights violation (it would be great if any of the human rights NGOs would take this topic on). I think a lawyer will have a very different view, as will most probably the ICC. It would be a precedence case, so most likely very difficult. For sth like that, witnesses are needed.

At least, what can be done is affirming that pwME face a widespread and systemic attack. But it is not just about ME, this is about any neglected diagnosis, and diseases and disability in general. It's sth we know from psychiatry that we hear right now, too: "The patients might not want it, but we say it's good, and we know what's good for the patients; if they don't want what is good for them, we need to force them to their good". Here, "the good" can be defined arbitrarily. It is not acceptable. Medicine/Psychiatry has to learn that patients, too, have human rights, no matter their diagnosis (see UN disability rights convention). And I don't see they will learn without pressure. They won't even change if UN tells them to.

I don't want to take this thread off-topic though. Re-reading Countrygirl's post I may have misunderstood sth.
 

Inara

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Yesterday, after NICE announced the present debacle, I was phoned by a doctor who needs case histories to prove that GET harms patients.
Why is the existing proof of harm of GET not suffice? There are several papers, and I remember a relatively recent survey that was done for NICE during the guideline process.
 

hapl808

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Proof of harm only suffices if it fits the overall agenda. That's one of the problems with the medical system: the jailers get to decide what's best for the inmates. The jailers also provide oversight on the jail.
 

Inara

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Thanks a lot @wabi-sabi!
I think what keeps me back from concrete steps is the feeling this is a huge thing that should be taken up by several people or an organization. I'll definitely have a look at doctors with ME. Also, I'll ask at our local court for information.
 

Countrygirl

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@Countrygirl, I find this interesting. I considered taking legal steps for a while now, more from an international human rights and crimes aspect. In this respect having witness reports would be very important, and I played with that idea for a while. I'm happy to see someone is realizing it. Can you provide more information on what the doctor plans, and is it somehow possible to share ideas and resources or even to collaborate? I'm from Germany.
You can PM me if needed. I'd be delighted.
I cannot say more at the moment, @Inara as this is a work in progress.

But please do send me your story if involves being made worse by GET.
 

Countrygirl

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Why is the existing proof of harm of GET not suffice? There are several papers, and I remember a relatively recent survey that was done for NICE during the guideline process.
There is plenty of anecdotal evidence of harm, but it is just ignored....so far. This is yet more evidence which will be used in a different way.
 

Countrygirl

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His blog will be a source.
I just haven't the time though....after working three 12 hour days on acknowledging and assembling the now well over 100 case histories, I am crashed. We are doing well though.

It is impossible to imagine any reasonable person promoting GET in the face of all this evidence.

I hope we can use it to great effect.

If anyone would like to trawl through David's file for case histories that would be great, I am not so sure there are many though.
 

Countrygirl

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I have now been specially asked for many more case histories of those who started as mild/moderate, became severe as a result of GET and required a feeding tube.

If you know of anyone, please would you pass them my way?

Thanks!
 

Alvin2

The good news is patients don't die the bad news..
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It is impossible to imagine any reasonable person promoting GET in the face of all this evidence.
The power of denial is that they will deny rain is wet if it will get them what they want.
People who prefer ideology to reality will not be swayed by evidence.
Max Planck once said
“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.”
I don't know what exactly your up against but don't depend on people doing the right thing when presented with correct information, they often think they are right and the universe is wrong and that if they believe strongly enough the universe will do what they say.
Go over heads and attack the real problem, their belief in nonsense.

If anyone would like to trawl through David's file for case histories that would be great, I am not so sure there are many though.
PACE is in itself one giant case history.
 

Inara

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I think legal action is one good way to build pressure. Exactly what @Alvin2 says: I don't think there will be change without pressure. (It's pretty natural for a human being, I'd say, not to change too much, and from experience we mostly change things if we're under pressure, or else we keep the system running as long as possible, even if it is unwise.)

Take e.g. forced psychiatry: UN started years ago critisizing German practice (probably other country's practice, too, but I am not informed), and called forced treatments torture. Someone must have handed in complaints to UN. Germany says their legal experts say Germany fulfills UN charta (while UN says it doesn't), so they don't change laws. A handful of psychiatrists - one in particular - write papers propagating a psychiatry without violence and force. I think most psychiatrists never spoke up publicly, due to fear from powerful colleagues, although a substantial number seems to suffer that they have to apply violence - that it's expected from them. Now the atmosphere is changing, and it's possible more psychiatrists will change or speak up. Some day Germany will change their laws. That's my hope.
UN keeps publishing reports demanding a psychiatry without torture, now giving concrete examples how this could work.

I am not aware anybody complained to UN about what can be seen with regards to ME. If the UN receives complaints, it might take a closer look at the case. Individual case stories of how people were harmed or their human rights violated would be helpful, but I will try without them.

If, additionally, more people take the legal path, that might change the atmosphere even more, maybe even if the processes are lost. At some point the pressure gets too high, and things have to change.
 

Countrygirl

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In the meantime, before we drag the wretches to court, bang them up, and throw away the key, I do urgently need at least a dozen histories of those who, as a result of GET, deteriorated from mild/moderate to requiring a feeding tube.

Is anyone in contact with people in this state as a result of exercise please?

Thanks, Everyone!