Can't shut my brain off to sleep

[minkeygirl]

I've already done hormone tests. Cortisol is fine. Also glucose is fine. Mood is fine. Nothing has changed.

This is just a weird brain thing. I've had it on and off for years. Now it is on and it's pissing me off. LOL.

I just want a drug to stop it and wondered if anyone found one that helps. OTC is worthless for this.

Im going to talk to my doc Friday.

 

[Leopardtail]

I don't eat gluten and have caffeine less than once a month. I used to have caffeine more than weekly and I would need to stop by 8pm to sleep at 2am.

The stimulants in decaf teas and chocolate also last that long in me.

Make sure that you also avoid the following Herbal teas: Nettle, Fennel
They cause de-hydration and aggravate low blood volume.

 

[Leopardtail]

I've already done hormone tests. Cortisol is fine. Also glucose is fine. Mood is fine. Nothing has changed.

This is just a weird brain thing. I've had it on and off for years. Now it is on and it's pissing me off. LOL.

I just want a drug to stop it and wondered if anyone found one that helps. OTC is worthless for this.

Im going to talk to my doc Friday.

If your mood does not alter when you feel light-headed hypoclyceamia seems less likely.

if you are doing the 'usual' thing of peeing like a racehorse, it might be worth looking into your levels of Aldosterone or AVP.
Your blood levels of Potassium and Sodium would give a clue which is more likely.
Low Sodium, high potassium = low Aldosterone
Lot Potassium, high Sodium = low AVP.

Another clue would (if you wee too much) when it happens. AVP is more likely to be a problem at night.

 

[SickOfSickness]

Make sure that you also avoid the following Herbal teas: Nettle, Fennel
They cause de-hydration and aggravate low blood volume.

Interesting (though I've never had those teas before). I need a list of everything to avoid because of low blood volume. Sometimes I may be low in potassium.

 

[xchocoholic]

I hardly slept from 1990-2006? so I understand where you're coming from.

My Dr just told me to take a variety of drugs, trazadone, skelaxin, benadryl and klonopin that usually induce sleep and if that doesn't work, don't worry about it because my body would eventually have to sleep.

That was crappy advice. I felt horrible most of the time. And my body never got a chance to heal because I couldn't sleep.

Have you tried Benadryl, valerian root or more Theanine. I took 100 mg theanine every hour fir several hours the first time I tried it. It worked great but wore off within an hour. You may want to make sure that's ok. I was desperate and didn't care. I know from experience that I can take 300 mg at once but never tried more. I raised my 5http to 300 and melatonin to 9 mg if I still couldn't sleep.
That dose has never failed. kow.

The melatonin and 5htp I use are chemicals that our bodies should secrete naturally but mine won't if I've had gluten or caffeine. I typically have some caffeine if I'm eating gf goodies.

I hope you get some relief from this. It's horrible not being able to sleep.

tc ... x

 

[minkeygirl]

@Leopardtail I never said I was lightheaded and I also never said I was Preminger constantly.

I don't need anyone diagnosing me. I want to know if anyone found a med that had helped them.

@xchocoholic as I said, OTC does not make a dent. I have tried everything. I was hoping Someone had something new to offer in the way of rx.

 

[Aileen]

Have you tried Elavil (amitriptyline)? I have had sleep issues for years. At one point I almost completely stopped sleeping. In desperation I asked my doc to try it for both sleep and as a migraine preventative. It is used for other types of pain as well.

The dosage for other symptoms is much less than for depression. Typically drs start you on 10mg. That is the smallest size tablet. I am sensitive to medication and so I cut the pill in 4 and started with just 1/4 pill at night. That first crumb (literally - the pill is the size of a baby aspirin) put me out like a light and I had my first 6hr plus sleep in years.

I took the dose 2-3 hours before I wanted to be able to go to sleep. I don't know if this will apply to you or not, but for people who take it for migraines, we are warned it can cause headaches and presumably other symptoms for a few days to a couple weeks until your body gets used to it. I had this happen but it did go away. The first 3 days were the worst but not too bad after that.

 

[Leopardtail]

I hardly slept from 1990-2006? so I understand where you're coming from.

My Dr just told me to take a variety of drugs, trazadone, skelaxin, benadryl and klonopin that usually induce sleep and if that doesn't work, don't worry about it because my body would eventually have to sleep.

That was crappy advice. I felt horrible most of the time. And my body never got a chance to heal because I couldn't sleep.

Have you tried Benadryl, valerian root or more Theanine. I took 100 mg theanine every hour fir several hours the first time I tried it. It worked great but wore off within an hour. You may want to make sure that's ok. I was desperate and didn't care. I know from experience that I can take 300 mg at once but never tried more. I raised my 5http to 300 and melatonin to 9 mg if I still couldn't sleep.
That dose has never failed. kow.

The melatonin and 5htp I use are chemicals that our bodies should secrete naturally but mine won't if I've had gluten or caffeine. I typically have some caffeine if I'm eating gf goodies.

I hope you get some relief from this. It's horrible not being able to sleep.

tc ... x

Trying adding P5P and Zinc to your 5-HTP and Melatonin, you may then find you do better, collectively they should calm you down and induce sleep.
-- if you wake up too quick try adding hop flower extract & valerian together (they take a few weeks to gain full effect).
Theannine is good is you suffer agitation when trying to get to sleep.
Some people find low dose Methyl-B12 is helpful (500mcg) but without MethylFolate.

 

[Leopardtail]

Have you tried Elavil (amitriptyline)? I have had sleep issues for years. At one point I almost completely stopped sleeping. In desperation I asked my doc to try it for both sleep and as a migraine preventative. It is used for other types of pain as well.

The dosage for other symptoms is much less than for depression. Typically drs start you on 10mg. That is the smallest size tablet. I am sensitive to medication and so I cut the pill in 4 and started with just 1/4 pill at night. That first crumb (literally - the pill is the size of a baby aspirin) put me out like a light and I had my first 6hr plus sleep in years.

I took the dose 2-3 hours before I wanted to be able to go to sleep. I don't know if this will apply to you or not, but for people who take it for migraines, we are warned it can cause headaches and presumably other symptoms for a few days to a couple weeks until your body gets used to it. I had this happen but it did go away. The first 3 days were the worst but not too bad after that.

I tried this myself, slept like a log, but it wasn't refreshing sleep for me personally and left me doped all day long. Amitriptyline also disrupts AcetylCholine - it can take away nerve pain but cause or worsen muscle pain, and cause a host of other problems. It caused me to pee so much that my tongue went hard due to de-hydration.

 

[Leopardtail]

@Leopardtail I never said I was lightheaded and I also never said I was Preminger constantly.

I don't need anyone diagnosing me. I want to know if anyone found a med that had helped them.

@xchocoholic as I said, OTC does not make a dent. I have tried everything. I was hoping Someone had something new to offer in the way of rx.

Most sleep meds are designed for short term use and lose effect used long term.
To be helped we need to work out WHAT is causing your lack of sleep. Hence the questions and suggestions.

The most effective Rx long term is Melatonin the natural sleep hormone - getting the dose right was tricky for me though.

 

[minkeygirl]

@Aileen tried it along with tons of other stuff. It's way too sedating.

I have meds that work fine. The problem is stopping the brain. Nothing I have does that except tizanidine which works great but I can only take it every other day.

I need something out of the box. Who would think a muscle relaxant would quiet my brain, but it does. Go figure.

 

[xchocoholic]

Trying adding P5P and Zinc to your 5-HTP and Melatonin, you may then find you do better, collectively they should calm you down and induce sleep.
-- if you wake up too quick try adding hop flower extract & valerian together (they take a few weeks to gain full effect).
Theannine is good is you suffer agitation when trying to get to sleep.
Some people find low dose Methyl-B12 is helpful (500mcg) but without MethylFolate.

Actually, what I take works great for me. I just realized I can't take it for more than 2 nights in a row but that's not a problem.

I prefer taking as few drugs and supplements as possible. I went thru my try every supplement phase. : )

tc ... x

 

[WoolPippi]

@Aileen tried it along with tons of other stuff. It's way too sedating.

I have meds that work fine. The problem is stopping the brain. Nothing I have does that except tizanidine which works great but I can only take it every other day.

I need something out of the box. Who would think a muscle relaxant would quiet my brain, but it does. Go figure.

Did your brain shut up already, how are you doing?

I think: high noradrenaline neurotransmitter. Makes your brain GO, notice everything and think about everything. I have this and think I recognize your symptoms.
Muscle relaxant is probably a second messenger drug, just like most potent sleep drugs. Cell receptor does get punched but message not delivered to nucleus so no stimulation and receptor not available for noradrenaline punching. Zzzz.

Out of the box, weapens grade medication that works = allopregnanolone. Is a neurotransmitter. Works as potent as benzo's

Long range, hollistic approach: what caused your noradrenaline to rise this timeand why doesn't it come down now that you stopped that one medication? With me: it's how I am wired. I get excited quickly and Mao A enzyme doesn't break down the neurotransmitters properly. Will take two hours after any excitement. I have to avoid all stimulants which may be as stupid as ... nutmeg. Or methylation during the day.

 

[minkeygirl]

@WoolPippi The really annoying stuff that keeps me up all night stopped but I am having some problems. Tizanidine works fine for that.

I don't understand half of what else you wrote. I've noted the allopregnanolone if I can't get it under control.

I have a specific sleep ritual, nothing alters, so there is no reason why some nights it happens, others it doesn't.

 

[redaxe]

Have you tried GABA? This is the main neuro inhibitor messenger of the brain and induces calmness and sleep.
Initially I needed quite a bit of it including 5htp and melatonin to get good sleep but now I find I don't need as much.
I take it as a powdered form which I mix into drinks. I buy mine from Bulk Nutrients which is an Australian company.
I found if your mind is buzzing at 6pm take a little bit then to slow it down then a regular dose before sleep. It is very common for CFS patients to have a GABA deficiency which causes neuroexcitotoxicity.

 

[minkeygirl]

@redaxe, I believe I said OTC doesn't even come close to touching this. I have tried everything you can think of and stuff you haven't thought of. I NEED DRUGS! Short acting with a short half life.

 

[Aileen]

Maybe a drug that is used to calm down kids and help them focus might be of use? Ritalin or something along those lines? A drug that some of the university kids are abusing to help them study? No idea which meds those are. No experience with any of them, just an idea that came to mind.

 

[minkeygirl]

Good thought but I've taken those and they make me too jittery.

 

[Aileen]

Good thought but I've taken those and they make me too jittery.

Darn. Umm ... since it is you brain that is revved up, perhaps that means the neurons are firing too much. Have you tried any anti-seizure meds? The idea would be to lessen the amount of messages the neurons are sending.

Gabapentin and Lyrica both work on the pre-synaptic neuron (the one SENDING) the message. Keppra is another that works on the "sender" but in a different way. Keppra can cause rage though, so I'd put that last on the list.

Others include Topiramate (works on dopamine and antagonizes glutamate), Lamotrigine (works on sodium channels somehow), Gabatril (might keep GABA in the system longer) Have you tried any of these?

 

[minkeygirl]

I won't take those. I took gabapentin and gained 60 lbs in 6 months. The same problem with Lyrica.

It doesn't happen all the time, just occasionally so I just want something for those occasions.

I have found oddly enough that Tizanidine stops it, but I can only take it a few days in a row then I need a break for a day or two. It's during that break that I need something. Since it's a muscle relaxant, I'm not sure that neurons are the problem but who knows?

Benzos are out because I like them too much.

I'll discuss the other stuff with my doc. I need something that works fast, and then is out of me since most things are too sedating for me.