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Can somebody debunk this?

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Iknovate

Iknovate

Senior Member
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129
dannybex said:
Abrin brought up Andrew Wakefield's work as being an another example of fraudulent work. You replied by saying, "Fraudulent by whose standards?"

And I replied with evidence related to your reply.
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The piece provided was not a scientific review.
 
Iknovate

Iknovate

Senior Member
Messages
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The inability to reproduce the XMRV research has been proven to be a matter of incompetence and lack of familiarity with how to work with the materials.

It's also a matter of a witch hunt. There's a whole backstory with John Coffin who is quoted as saying: "I began comparing Judy Mikovits to Joan of Arc. The scientists will burn her at the stake, but her faithful following will have her canonized."

Mikovits continues to challenge the stranglehold on truth and the continued stealing of credit for work done by others, forced to shut up and take the abuse.

It's not sexual abuse, but it is professional abuse: "Do what I say or I'll destroy your career.*
 
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dannybex

dannybex

Senior Member
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3,564
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Iknovate said:
The inability to reproduce the XMRV research has been proven to be a matter of incompetence and lack of familiarity with how to work with the materials.

It's also a matter of a witch hunt. There's a whole backstory with John Coffin who is quoted as saying: "I began comparing Judy Mikovits to Joan of Arc. The scientists will burn her at the stake, but her faithful following will have her canonized."

Mikovits continues to challenge the stranglehold on truth and the continued stealing of credit for work done by others, forced to shut up and take the abuse.

It's not sexual abuse, but it is professional abuse: "Do what I say or I'll destroy your career.*
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Sorry, but, like Mikovits, none of what you say is true. You ignore all the evidence that's been provided, and keep playing the same broken record over and over. If what you -- and she -- says is true, please provide links to back up her -- and your claims.
 
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Oliver3

Senior Member
Messages
863
YippeeKi YOW !! said:

I have no idea who they are but I question their sartorial taste ....

The problem with keeping an 'open mind' is that all sorts of things of varied value can just, you know, fall on in ....
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Yes but I feel like you're making a slight assumption that I'm stupid.
I've been gaslit, like the rest of us by the so called " real science" I could apply that logic of " falling" into things, just as keenly back to you.
An open mind for me, is take the things from all camps. No one from either side of this is gonna be right all the time.
As I said my original position on this was asking about cannibanoid s. You talk to your usual orthodox doctor about this and you're a lunatic. But I feel there is some truth to it. So yes I keep an open mind, which is more prudent than just shutting down stuff.
It honestly truly amazes me, that your hatred for mikowitz ( which I can understand) trump's your hatred for what mainstream medicine continues to do to us.
Its an absolute fallacy that mikowitz destroyed our chances. It certainly didn't help at all. But the patriarchal, amorphous juggernaut of profit based medicine has always been the biggest hurdle to us. The medical community have given permission for us to be abused way before mikowitz to
Am I still gonna listen to mainstream medicine. Of course. Am I still gonna listen to klinghadrt and mikowitz. Yes. Knowing that they're all just human and full of crap half the time.
The medical orthodoxy here in the UK has zero treatment, zero research, zero belief in the illness. This happened way before mikowitz, so it's a bit dramatic to say she changed the field. There hasn't been a field. On the other hand, Norway apologised publicly to its m.e. sufferers. That's not made a blind bit of difference to how were viewed either.
I'm sure mikowitz added to the already entrenched doubt, but I'd suggest, at least she believes there is a problem! And it's not for gainm it's a true belief. I don't subscribe to her in any other way than I thik she may be right about the endo cannabinoid system, and so I'll keep an eye on that, whilst knowing she's full of it.
That's how you have to read all medicine these days. With an open mind but also reservations.
What if mikowitz hits on smthg brilliant...that's my attitude.
But I'm not waiting on her...as I'm certainly sadly not waiting on the NIH or the FDA to come up with smthg..
I feel our ire is better directed there.
Just been reading Jen breas post. The anger is palpable. How can someone like me, a patient, be more aware of CCI and eds or inflammatory conditions causing structural changes that possibly create a form of m.e.
How can I really trust my neurologist, who I've already talked with about this and days it's nonsense. There is a massive failure in teaching and accepting feedback from patients which doesn't tally with what they've been taught.
That is way more damaging than mikowitz ever could be. At least mikowitz would entertain that idea.
So yes open minds are what I have but deffo not what orthodoxy has in regards to m.e.
 
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Oliver3

Senior Member
Messages
863
Abrin said:
I was being fair.

Yes, the medical community has set back ME/CFS research.

But, Judy Mikovits also personally set back ME/CFS research.

These two statements are both true.
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Im just talking in terms of scale.
Mikowitz is a drop in the ocean. The medical community were never gonna address this disease, they're still trying to somatise long covid.
I just think you have a skewer view of her effect.
We are basically a no one disease. She is a bete noire for the community. When the medical community, all those with real power should be the real source of our ire
 
Iknovate

Iknovate

Senior Member
Messages
129
Oliver3 said:
When the medical community, all those with real power should be the real source of our ire
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Shame on those who cannot celebrate all the martyrs who have sacrificed much to bring light to the abuses of the system which prevent real progress.

Their penance is living with the results.
 
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Oliver3

Senior Member
Messages
863
Abrin said:
I am confused. Why can't I have ire for both?

Why do you require it to be one or another?
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Let's get this clear.
Mikowitz, more than I realised is a lightning rod for vitriol. Fair enough. I don't care.
She hasn't set m.e. back more than anyone.
There has never been anything to set back. Its your focus on the heretic , that you say has been a major stumbling to m.e. development.
You can and should have ire for both. But making statement s about how she set back this n that, just a red herring .
We've ALWAYS been in the toilet with the medical community. Sure she gave them one excuse...among many before and after.
When I posted this, it was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek. Personally I don't like or trust mikowitz but I find her endocannabinoid ideas interesting. So I was asking if anyone knew anything about this.
I like fauci a lot less tho because he literally stands in the way of research. So I'm saying, if you're gonna say, mikowitz single handedly did smthg..well she was a useful idiot for a medical community who will never take us seriously. Still to this day. With long covid being the sister illness. I spoke to a new NHS doctor today. She didn't know what m.e. was!! I had to say chronic fatigue syndrome. She then proceeded to tell me how there is nothing wrong in the body and would I consider psyche meds and CBT. That's their training. Nice girl. Just that's what they've always been taught. That has nothing to do with mikowitz.
And as I said mikowitz, as tainted as she may be, MAY still have some interesting ideas that trump her vanity.
To just flush that away seems silly, so that's why I asked, can anyone " debunk"( it was a joke but obviously I didn't realise a dog whistle too) the endocannabinoid ideas she has, as personally I've been getting some relief with cannabis.
So mikowitz still to this day seems to have a better idea of our situation that a newly trained brand new NHS doctor.
I don't trust her. But as with the doctor, I didn't regard her opinion much either.
Its just about recognising where the real problem lies and not juicy redherrings
 
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