British newspaper XMRV article yesterday

[cigana]

Hi,

This appeared yesterday in The Guardian newspaper:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/dec/20/chronic-fatigue-me-research?INTCMP=SRCH

Warning - it might raise your blood pressure. Just letting people know what's in the press.

Cig

 

[lancelot]

UK newspapers like the guardian are run by the government-no freedom of speech. forget anything the UK writes or do they are nothing but instruments of their government propaganda. It's a sad sad country. I'm so glad to be an American! God bless America!

 

[*GG*]

UK newspapers like the guardian are run by the government-no freedom of speech. forget anything the UK writes or do they are nothing but instruments of their government propaganda. It's a sad sad country. I'm so glad to be an American! God bless America!

Couldn't agree with you any more!

 

[Martlet]

UK newspapers like the guardian are run by the government-no freedom of speech. forget anything the UK writes or do they are nothing but instruments of their government propaganda. It's a sad sad country. I'm so glad to be an American! God bless America!

Moderator: For the sake of disclosure, I will tell you that I am British and the above comments are offensive. Freedom of speech is enshrined in English law, the Press is totally free and the British are very proud of their country. If you wish a discussion on the relative merits of our two nations, I will gladly engage you in private, since I am one of the few members here to have lived in and experienced both countries, but please refrain from posting such xenophobic comments in this, an international, forum.

 

[Martlet]

Couldn't agree with you any more!

Moderator: Please see my comments to Lancelot. This is not a forum that tolerates offensive speech towards anyone based on religion, creed, nationality or sexual identity so please refrain from encouraging xenophobic remarks.

 

[lancelot]

Calm down Martlet,

It is what it is. the UK government runs the media and censores as they please esp as it pertains to CFS/ME/XMRV. Are you not angry? Well, if you can't see it, then live with it. it's really none of my business. ta ta!

USA #1 Always and Forever~!:Sign Peace:

 

[flowing rivers]

UK newspapers like the guardian are run by the government-no freedom of speech. forget anything the UK writes or do they are nothing but instruments of their government propaganda. It's a sad sad country. I'm so glad to be an American! God bless America!

Hello!? this is hilarious.
Peace and love to everyone.

 

[justy]

Moderator: For the sake of disclosure, I will tell you that I am British and the above comments are offensive. Freedom of speech is enshrined in English law, the Press is totally free and the British are very proud of their country. If you wish a discussion on the relative merits of our two nations, I will gladly engage you in private, since I am one of the few members here to have lived in and experienced both countries, but please refrain from posting such xenophobic comments in this, an international, forum.

i agree entirely, and i have noticed this tone in other threads in recent days, most upsetting.
thank you or stepping in Martlet.

 

[Merry]

UK newspapers like the guardian are run by the government-no freedom of speech. forget anything the UK writes or do they are nothing but instruments of their government propaganda. It's a sad sad country. I'm so glad to be an American! God bless America!

I also find this offensive.

 

[lancelot]

I also find this offensive.

"All press releases going to the media in the UK have to be approved and vetted by the UK Science Media Centre, on which sits Professor Simon Wessley, the man who has successfully persuaded most of the medical and scientific establishment in the UK to believe ME/CFS is psychosocial, not biological, in origin"

freedom of speech my ASS!!!!

ALL BRITS SHOULD BE OFFENDED AND ANGRY. OPEN YOUR EYES AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!

 

[Merry]

Hi, lancelot.

You are right that the ME/CFS community was, once again, done an injustice by the coverage at the BBC and the Guardian. I am angry about that coverage. The BBC headline this week was bad. I can't remember the wording, but it rulled out XMRV as a cause of ME/CFS. Unfair, wrong-headed, dishonest. If I can get myself organized and can figure out how to do it, I will complain to both news sources.

Thank you for the information that Simon Wessley sits on the board of the UK Science Media Centre. I will make an effort to look into this more. From all I have heard about Simon Wessey (is that how his name is spelled? - just asking) he is a wicked, cruel man. Deluded.

I don't like you saying Britain is "a sad, sad country." Not true, and it is not nice for you to talk like that.

And the way the major media is controlled in this country, the US is nothing to brag about. Very little of what is going on in the world is covered in major US outlets, and some topics are taboo. I won't mention my political interests (my concern for a particular group of oppressed people) and risk a fight on this forum or hate mail. Fortunately we have the internet to get information beyond what major outlets are willing to cover.

As far as the coverage of ME/CFS in the US that has often been bad or non-existent. Coverage at the Chicago Tribune was not good this week, but in general I think coverage is improving. It is improving because the science is getting done. The WSJ has been doing a good job lately.

lancelot, I am uncomfortable with people with crying "I'm proud to be an American. God bless America." Everytime some American on this forum says something like that I cringe. That sounds to me overbearing, aggressive. Think how that sounds to citizens of other countries.

A big part of my delight in Phoenix Rising is the participation of people from all over the world. I like hearing others' perspectives and like hearing about their experiences. We are all sick, we can help each other. Strength in numbers. Something like that.

I really am not well enough anymore to engage in conversations like this. That's why I don't post on many of the threads that I read with interest. I try to steer clear of forum members I see as aggressive or combative or irritable. Arguments are very stressful me, immediately sickening - and it takes me a long time to recover. Have mercy.

Merry

 

[Esther12]

I can't tell when people are joking here. I think I'd assumed some of the stuff about the UK was meant in a more humorous way than was really the case.

There's no way that the government 'controls' the British press. In extreme situations they can put out control orders - or more often, have a word with publishers about national interest. But anything like that with CFS would just draw more attention to it (although the comparisons to MMR will certainly have had a chilling effect upon coverage).

We're a more elitist society, and tend to have more respect for those who are thought to be experts. Evolution, global warming... we don't have the problems America has with the widespread rejection of reality. The downside of this is that when the evidence is deeply ambiguous, but there are those willing to present themselves as experts - then the press will also be willing to report their opinions in a very uncritical way.

I thikn that this elitism also explains why the UK approaches CFS in a far more psychiatric manner... but that's a whole different matter.

 

[Min]

The Guardian is especially scathing about people with M.E., as shown in its Dr Crippen column and its bias in only publishing negative XMRV findings. Wessely's colleague psychiatrist Ben Goldacre, who owns the Bad Science site, writes for them.

There does seem to be a press embargo on reporting anything positive about XMRV in the UK, and people with M.E. who have been interviewed by the BBC have been told not to mention XMRV.

I agree with Lancelot, Wessely is vetting all information about M.E. that reaches the press here (this is what is trullyoffensive, not Merry's post). Only the Daily Mail tabloid has been reporting on findings showing that M.E. is a physical illness. Unfortunately they also promote LP.

 

[Silver]

"All press releases going to the media in the UK have to be approved and vetted by the UK Science Media Centre...

The Science Media Centre is an independant organisation which aims to facilitate the interaction between scientists and the media. A good idea in theory, although obviously open to abuse. Journalists are not under any obligation to use their services, however, and a statement such as ""All press releases going to the media in the UK have to be approved and vetted by the UK Science Media Centre" is plainly ridiculous.

freedom of speech my ASS!!!!

ALL BRITS SHOULD BE OFFENDED AND ANGRY. OPEN YOUR EYES AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!

There's more than enough to be offended about, most notably the almost non-existent investment in biomedical research. 'Freedom of speech' in the UK is not an issue.

 

[free at last]

"All press releases going to the media in the UK have to be approved and vetted by the UK Science Media Centre, on which sits Professor Simon Wessley, the man who has successfully persuaded most of the medical and scientific establishment in the UK to believe ME/CFS is psychosocial, not biological, in origin"

freedom of speech my ASS!!!!

ALL BRITS SHOULD BE OFFENDED AND ANGRY. OPEN YOUR EYES AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!

I think you guys certainly need to learn to be a bit more specific on who your exactly condemming here, saying its a sad sad country glad im american, is a little bit broad, to be just a attack against those who hurt the understanding of a real disease, both in the uk and abroad, I actually agree what goes on in my country is just plain wrong, and support any american who suggests as such.

but do not for one minute be so broad in your wording as to make it sound like all uk citizens are in some way part of this, or to blame.

As for open yours eyes and do something about it, 1 my eyes are fully open, infact often more than some american posters on here more concerened with the image of a CFS /ME paitent than standing up and saying no this is wrong.

some saying Kenny De Meilier is wrong to say what he did recently is a example of that.

when infact i think he was intirely right to speak out as such.

2 Many in the Uk have tried to stand up to the opinions of the pyschiatrists who are allowed to dismiss the disease in such a appaling way. Malcom Hoopers magical medicine how to make a disease dissapear sent to the health minister for the Uk is example of that, so those comments are really way way off base.

Of course the Americans have had there problems too over the years with the likes of Reeves and the cdc, much has been said about how the actions of the cdc have also verged on bias, and the belittling of paitents by those actions, so its not intirely just a british problem sorry wrong there too.will you open your eyes lol.

It seems that the American experiance is improving fast as time goes on, since xmrv has confused so many in the american health system, to the point where its become more uncertian that this is in anyway a mental illnes.

Things have started to improve a lot for you guys, while we on the other hand are still fighting this corruption, do you think we do not care ? do you think if we could change this situation we would not do so in a heartbeat ? We need your support and science to end this corruption, because it is so bad in the uk, and those in control have so much power, with out your support, we may in fact fail.

Do you not think we do not appreciate your help ? and support, when we have no one else to turn to ? ive told judy Mikovits by email that i loved Annette and judy for what they have given us, after i may have found my truth, with there science.

I did not say those words lightly. its because of the neglect of those in power in my country, that i felt such strong emotion for what the wpi has done for the uk patients, and me personally.

Do not let your anger or your definition of it, in the way you choose your words, to include the paitents,

as paitents of a sad sad country. glad im american, ignoring your problems with Reeves and the CDC is really pretty hypocrital to blame us, when we do not blame you for REEVES ?

we are not a sad sad country just some elements within it most certainly are, its only those that have that power that are sad, not us, even the uk doctors are fed disinformation to help keep this status quo intact, if they had the truth instead of the disinformation, im sure many would not act like they do.

Lancelot i hope we have your support, as your wording almost sounds like we dont, this message goes out to others that have seemed to have lost the distinction between the UK pateints, and those who have had the power to condem us as mentally depressed patients. Not right guys i hope i see a change or im gone, many here are fully supportive,and ive felt kinship with whatever nationality, has had to deal with these issues.

 

[maryb]

Dont think I take lancelots post as offensive, he's right in some ways, I think too that many UK ME patients need to open their eyes take a bit more interest in whats happening worldwide with this illness, a lot seem totally absorbed with only how the illness affects them, is that wrong? no of course not but we'll never see any change if people don't get more pro-ative, in particular many have superb computer tech skills and could do more with them. (thats called computer envy)
The fact that Wessley's responses have been published so many times about all things ME shows how lazy the UK media are.I think the media centre should be bombarded with complaints as to why a psychiatrists view is asked for about all things relating to a neuro/immune disease never mind XMRV.
Not a very festive reply just a moan really, am laid up after putting my back out so feeling decidedly grumpy

 

[Enid]

So what to the British press - they have to fill pages however ignorant. We are rather more patient - not headlines - but (I for one) follow the increasing understanding research and findings. Wesseley et al is old hat (what an ass he is in all this).

 

[urbantravels]

One thing I know about the British press is that it is subject to much more stringent libel laws than exist in the US.

I've often wondered if that fact ever be leveraged against the bias in press coverage that tends to occur in the UK - could a case be made for libel against patients (doubtful) or, in the recent case, for libel against those who have reported "conclusions" about the contamination of top researchers' previous work on XMRV? Just an idle thought...

 

[free at last]

Dont think I take lancelots post as offensive, he's right in some ways, I think too that many UK ME patients need to open their eyes take a bit more interest in whats happening worldwide with this illness, a lot seem totally absorbed with only how the illness affects them, is that wrong? no of course not but we'll never see any change if people don't get more pro-ative, in particular many have superb computer tech skills and could do more with them. (thats called computer envy)
The fact that Wessley's responses have been published so many times about all things ME shows how lazy the UK media are.I think the media centre should be bombarded with complaints as to why a psychiatrists view is asked for about all things relating to a neuro/immune disease never mind XMRV.
Not a very festive reply just a moan really, am laid up after putting my back out so feeling decidedly grumpy

Well if you cant see how some of those comments are a little bit lost on distinction between the paitients and saying its a sad sad country, and do something about it open your eyes

and all this

- Calm down Martlet - how arrogant and rude, calm down lancelot see how that feels pretty arrogant yes.

It is what it is. the UK government runs the media and censores as they please esp as it pertains to CFS/ME/XMRV.

- Are you not angry ? Well, if you can't see it, then live with it. it's really none of my business. ta ta! -

of course we are angry damm, of course we can see it, live with it is not a option we have too, lancelot makes it sound like we have a choice, nope afraid we dont. ? arogance arogance arogance.

Its really none of my buisness TA TA- AROGANT AGAIN.
OK maybe me pointing out theres nicer ways to coverse with other sick patients, ITS REALLY NONE OF MY BUISSNESS TA TA Mary B, maybe you dont mind being spoken to like that then. feel good hmmm maybe not. ?


Im at a loss, the one thing i have been doing constantly is bringing attention to the corruptness of the system in the uk, so

open yours eyes thats wrong. sad sad country glad im american god bless america, thats wrong.

Certainly hypocritical, as theres enough you tube videos about the CDC from american researchers detailing how they have ignored outbreaks of illness, that were not investigated properly, have i ever sad when i learned about that,

America is a sad sad country, glad im british, god bless britian. Arrogant beyond belief are you lost on that Mary B ?

No i would never say such a thing, as i realize the negative attitude towards paitients and goverments under action, and even outright corruption isnt just a uk propblem, or respected american researchers wouldnt be condeming them so much would they ?
I have been guilty of being to self absorbed, but mostly when i have done that it has been a attempt to learn patterns of symptoms between us all, that for the most part was the reason. but on the occasions i may have been too self absorbed and i belive your right i have, then im sorry i apologize Mary. I wonder if lancelot will be so bold to see the harshness of hes words, and lets try and unite again, rather than fight. But im replying to you Mary as for some reason you seem obliviouse to the the points raised here by me and others but instead seem

to have a few gripes of your own, fair enough you may find i will answer them here.
Computer skills i actually do not posses the type of computer skills that would be particulaly helpful to anyone here i dont think, the reason being that the commputer skills i have learned are pretty specific to the job i have learned, even the software that i use for my astronomy for example is all done with free software that is pretty specific to the job in hand, even my understanding of some of the software i use, i actually do not fully understand how to use, but have just found ways to get it to do some of the things i want for the purpose i need. i do not posses paint shop pro, or photoshop, all programs that could be useful for creating posters, if i could think of a way how to do something that might be useful i will certainly try, but when i see what cort does with hes pages i often feel it would be pointless as i probably would struggle to produce anything as tidy and proffesional, but if i can think of any ideas i will, or if someones has a idea pm me.

I cant be bothered to try to reach out anymore, i hoped for understanding from those who might be losing the plot between the paitents and the uk corruption, if i dont see it, then theres issues all round isnt there. as mentioned it was creeping in on other posts, but i stayed silent untill others were clearly offended here Mary.

 

[leela]

Quote Originally Posted by lancelot
UK newspapers like the guardian are run by the government-no freedom of speech. forget anything the UK writes or do they are nothing but instruments of their government propaganda. It's a sad sad country. I'm so glad to be an American! God bless America!

Jingoistic weirdiness aside (it's a sad, sad country? have you ever even been there? not to mention the UK isn't just one country, it's a group of countries)
take a look at the handful of corporations that own and operate the major media outlets in the US, including newspapers, tv, and radio--and possibly soon the internet, as the Assange story leads to a scramble to control dissemination of info there as well.
Look too at the history of gag orders and corporate censorship of american media.

While it is true there is a very sad situation regarding ME and the medical establishment in much of the UK, saying it's a "sad, sad country" is just downright silly and wrong.

Be proud of having been pushed out of a vagina in the US if you will, but try to be aware that countries are made of humans, as are governments and internet forums.