Both slow and fast liver phase 1 possible?

jason30

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Hi all,

I am having problems with detoxing and I am trying to determine what my liver phase 1 and 2 status are.

I have Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, what means that I have a fast phase 1 and slow phase 2, says the theory.
However, I am also sensitive to caffeine, slow caffeine clearance, which is a direct symptom of a slow phase 1.

In order to threat my liver problems I try to figure out if I have a slow or fast phase 1. Does anybody know if there can be both (unlikely though!) ? Or have more information about determine the status of phase 1 and 2 of the liver?

Thanks in advance for any help on this subject!
 

Gingergrrl

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@jason30 I am of no help but am very curious on this topic and bumping up the post hoping someone else responds. I am also (now) intolerant of caffeine and have slow liver detox which affects the dosages and amounts of meds that I take. But am still an amateur at understanding this and how to work with it!
 

Little Bluestem

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I have no knowledge on the subject, but am wondering if you could have a phase 1 slow enough to cause slow caffeine clearance and an even slower phase 2 to cause multiple chemical sensitivities.
 

Helen

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I have Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, what means that I have a fast phase 1 and slow phase 2, says the theory.
Does it? That would be interesting to read more about. Do you have a source.

Different CYP´s or SNP´s mean upregulation OR downregulation according to how they act on enzyme production. I can´t see how the sum of enzyme production from CYP´s in Phase I could be both slow and fast at the same time. Maybe certain food, or substances , could up- or downregulate certain CYP´s as much as to change from fast to slow or reverse for the total Phase I detoxification.
 

jason30

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Does it? That would be interesting to read more about. Do you have a source.
In the past 2 years that's the only thing I have read about it; a fast phase 1 and slow phase 2 indicating MCS. Though all sources doesn't have any references to researches.

2 sources:

In Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS) the phase 1 birds are making way to many eggs, while the phase 2 workers are overwhelmed and can’t keep up with the packing. This creates a bottle-neck at the beginning of the phase 2 conveyor belt and the eggs spill over and make a huge mess. When this happens in the body, the toxic metabolites that are bottle-necked at the beginning of phase 2 start to circulate and cause a lot of damage throughout the system. So when a person with MCS encounters certain compounds like perfumes or paint that need to be detoxified by the phase 2 system and it is not working, then they get a lot of symptoms. These individuals need help to slow down phase 1 pathways, with phase 1 inhibitors such as niacinamide (500-1000mg/day) or grapefruit juice (250ml 3-4 times per day) or oregano oil, this also kills intestinal yeast and dosages vary) and support/speed up phase 2 pathways (e.g. with substances like sulphate or methyl groups).
http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/liver-detox-pathways/ &
http://balancedconcepts.net/liver_phases_detox_paths.pdf
People with multiple chemical sensitivity (MCS) generally have slow liver detoxification which can lead to a build up toxic compounds. Sometimes this is due to genetics (1 in 15 people are thought to be missing liver enzymes for optimal Phase 1 Cytochrome P450) other times it is caused by overexposure to "neurotoxic" substances such as solvents and pesticides - these can deplete enzymes necessary for effective detoxification. It can also be a result of hypocortisolism and a result of having a heightened toxic body burden.
http://mcsliving.com/content/liver-detoxification-impairment
 

jason30

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I have no knowledge on the subject, but am wondering if you could have a phase 1 slow enough to cause slow caffeine clearance and an even slower phase 2 to cause multiple chemical sensitivities.
I don't know if that's possible, but in theory it could be the case by me as well!

Soon I will start with foods and supplements that inhibit phase 1 and stimulate phase 2. I'm very curious how I will react.
 

Gondwanaland

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For a long time I thought I had fast phase I and slow phase II, and slowing down phase I was the worst thing I ever went thru (I used Nicotinamide, Boswellia).
 

jason30

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A feeling of liver congestion and worsened intolerance to smells. Niacin didn't cause that. Magnesium relieved it.
Thanks!
I asked because I experience the same thing.
Same as you, both Niacinamide and Boswellia worsened the situation in terms of MCS/liver issues.
But on the other hand, after intake of niacinamide I suddenly smell the original smells in the car. That was a long time ago and is for me a positive thing.
So my guess is that niacinamide does do some good things for my MCS, but at the same time it decreases important liver enzymes who are associated in phase 1 and which makes an other liver situation more worse.

If I recall correctly, you are using magnesium oxide for that?