Beware of ascorbic acid?

xrayspex

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Hi, I am curious if others have heard about this concern and what you might make of it? Someone at an auto-immune forum shared this blog that says that ascorbic acid is usually made from gmo corn product and they go on to cite why it isn't good for you and that when Linus Pauling did his reseach he had real vitamin C and not the modified ascorbic acid that is mostly available now.

http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/beware-of-ascorbic-acid-synthetic/
 

David Jackson

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Hi @xrayspex,

I've listened to quite a bit of Andrew Saul, who is a proponent of high dose Vitamin C/ascorbic acid. Now, I'm not saying that everything that Andrew Saul says is the supreme absolute truth, or anything; it's wise to question everything anyone says, and see what makes sense, and what works when you try it out. Anyway, this very concern about ascorbic acid derived GMO has been bought up to Andrew many times, and he always says the same thing: ascorbic acid is nothing more than C6H8O6, whether it is from a GMO crop, or not. It's a very small molocule. Basically, I think what he is saying is that GMO doesn't effect things on the level of atoms, and ascorbic acid is synthesized down to nothing more than these atoms.

I take around 12g of ascorbic acid per day, and I do believe I get some significant benefit from it. I also think I should be taking more. However, I do take non-GMO ascorbic acid. I do this because it's the cheapest that I can find and buy in bulk, actually. If I couldn't get this, I'd probably just take a GMO one... but if GMO Vitamin C is a concern, just get the non-GMO; it's not too hard to find really.
 

xrayspex

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@xrayspex Check out the Linus Pauling Institute for accurate information regarding ascorbic acid. :)

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/vitamin-C/supplemental-forms
thanks for the link! I checked it out and it looks like they covered the base. Did you see in that blog tho that she did make this comment about Linus Pauling--not that it proves anything lol:

"Fan of Linus Pauling? Consider This ….
If you are a fan of Linus Pauling who popularized the notion of huge doses of Vitamin C for the common cold in the 1970’s, consider this. GMO Vitamin C did not exist when Pauling was conducting his studies. GMO derived Vitamin C is what most people are unwittingly taking today!

What’s more, the studies indicating the danger of high doses of vitamin C over long periods of time had not been done yet. They were conducted long after Pauling died in 1994."

But looking at her blog I can't see any sources she cites to back it up. I am trying to post a comment to find out where she got her info.

Do you think this is manufactured scare tactic to sell other products or just ignorance ? I am just curious what of motivation sometimes when trying to get to the "truth" :)
 

xrayspex

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Hi @xrayspex,

I've listened to quite a bit of Andrew Saul, who is a proponent of high dose Vitamin C/ascorbic acid. Now, I'm not saying that everything that Andrew Saul says is the supreme absolute truth, or anything; it's wise to question everything anyone says, and see what makes sense, and what works when you try it out. Anyway, this very concern about ascorbic acid derived GMO has been bought up to Andrew many times, and he always says the same thing: ascorbic acid is nothing more than C6H8O6, whether it is from a GMO crop, or not. It's a very small molocule. Basically, I think what he is saying is that GMO doesn't effect things on the level of atoms, and ascorbic acid is synthesized down to nothing more than these atoms.

I take around 12g of ascorbic acid per day, and I do believe I get some significant benefit from it. I also think I should be taking more. However, I do take non-GMO ascorbic acid. I do this because it's the cheapest that I can find and buy in bulk, actually. If I couldn't get this, I'd probably just take a GMO one... but if GMO Vitamin C is a concern, just get the non-GMO; it's not too hard to find really.
David I am curious what benefit you have noticed from vitamin C? It is on my mind right now because I am taking it more regularly lately because had some dental work that involved taking a tooth out that had mercury in it. I am pretty miserable post-surgery so its hard to tell what else might be contributing to my flare besides the "trauma" I just went thru (ie vitamin c, tumeric? etc)
 

David Jackson

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Congrats, @xrayspex, on getting those mercury fillings out. Does that mercury accumulate in the body, and need to be detoxed somehow? I'm not an expert in any way; I have no mercury fillings...

Anyway, the benefit I noticed from vitamin C was simply: more energy. A noticeable amount. It was great to get a nice boost of energy from something as simple as vitamin C.

Have you heard the theory behind taking a large amount of vitamin C? Humans and other apes don't make vitamin C, we have to get it in our diet. Most other animals make it themselves. I read that goat will make around 10g of vitamin C in it's liver per day, and a lot more if it is sick or stressed. Humans are a lot bigger than goats, so the theory goes that we should supplement it, especially, with how most of us eat, we hardly get any otherwise.

I do suspect the woman in that article is trying to hawk some other wholefood supplements. Or maybe she is unaware that the GMO doesn't effect things on that molecular level once the corn has been synthesized down to C6H8O6. Or who knows, maybe there is some truth to it, and non-GMO stuff is better... usually, though, the rule is: before you take someone's advice, have a look and see what is motivating them to say a certain thing... as in, what are they selling, or getting commission for...

The trick to take plenty of vitamin C is to divide the dose, so you are only taking a small amount at once, otherwise it will just trigger the gut to empty. I know I can handle 3g four times per day, so I take that.

If you want to listen to some of Andrew Saul's stuff, there's plenty of it on YouTube.
 

xrayspex

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Congrats, @xrayspex, on getting those mercury fillings out. Does that mercury accumulate in the body, and need to be detoxed somehow? I'm not an expert in any way; I have no mercury fillings...

Anyway, the benefit I noticed from vitamin C was simply: more energy. A noticeable amount. It was great to get a nice boost of energy from something as simple as vitamin C.

Have you heard the theory behind taking a large amount of vitamin C? Humans and other apes don't make vitamin C, we have to get it in our diet. Most other animals make it themselves. I read that goat will make around 10g of vitamin C in it's liver per day, and a lot more if it is sick or stressed. Humans are a lot bigger than goats, so the theory goes that we should supplement it, especially, with how most of us eat, we hardly get any otherwise.

I do suspect the woman in that article is trying to hawk some other wholefood supplements. Or maybe she is unaware that the GMO doesn't effect things on that molecular level once the corn has been synthesized down to C6H8O6. Or who knows, maybe there is some truth to it, and non-GMO stuff is better... usually, though, the rule is: before you take someone's advice, have a look and see what is motivating them to say a certain thing... as in, what are they selling, or getting commission for...

The trick to take plenty of vitamin C is to divide the dose, so you are only taking a small amount at once, otherwise it will just trigger the gut to empty. I know I can handle 3g four times per day, so I take that.

If you want to listen to some of Andrew Saul's stuff, there's plenty of it on YouTube.
Well I wasn't trying to be clever taking out the tooth, it was a cracked molar flaring me up so needed to go...but there was a big old mercury filling in it so that was good to get rid of. I was a kid in 60s and 70s and back then a lot of the dentists would cut out more tooth and put in more filling than they ever would now and it can cause something called Cracked Tooth Syndrome as we age because mercury contracts and expands and over times weakens tooth. I stopped allowing mercury fillings since like 91 I think. I have heard from reputable sources tho that the worst damage from mercury is done right after the filling is put in so might be bit of moot issue to go trouble to get them out, but it does seem creepy to have mercury in yr ugh head, it is toxic to the brain geez.

thanks for the info I did not know that about most animals making their own C. Welll maybe the brand I have right now is not the best or maybe I need smaller amounts, will experiment again.
 

xrayspex

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I used to put ascorbic acid in footbaths. When I stopped using footbaths, I eventually settled on camu camu as a source of C. I wasn't taking mega doses, however.
why did you quit the footbaths? how do you feel from the camu camu?
 

ahmo

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I reached a point where I was no longer detoxxing. Hooray!!! An endpoint. That was the primary reason for FB, and then I just added all manner of things, aminos, large doses of potassium. Now I'm not needing large doses, and many of these things I'm not needing at all.

I like the camu. But I found at a certain point that I was spewing directly after drinking my evening tea/antioxidant combo. It seemed that i was over-loading my liver. I stopped many things at that point. I classified it as my body being too stressed to take all these things. But maybe I just no longer needed them. It's been summer here and I've been eating massive amounts of watermelon. I assume this is the current reason I never self-test + for C or some of the other things I've not been using.

The camu is bitter, but I like it. I investigated liposomal Vit C, but it was too fiddly to make it, and too expensive to buy. And now, my body's not even wanting it. Camu camu was the form that came up in my searches over and over. I bought it bulk on ebay. :hug:
 

Plum

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I have some non-GMO ascorbic acid for use in the bath from iHerb. I take acerola vit C every morning. It has hardly any taste. I found camu camu very bitter and made me less likely to take it!
 

TigerLilea

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Do you think this is manufactured scare tactic to sell other products or just ignorance ? I am just curious what of motivation sometimes when trying to get to the "truth" :)
Some people believe that GMO foods are dangerous and will harm us. I don't believe it myself. It comes down to what pesticides and herbicides were used. Even non-GMO organic produce can test positive for these two items.

I personally think that the issue of non-GMO Vitamin C is a sales pitch to sell a more expensive product.
 

TigerLilea

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Anyway, the benefit I noticed from vitamin C was simply: more energy. A noticeable amount. It was great to get a nice boost of energy from something as simple as vitamin C.

If you want to listen to some of Andrew Saul's stuff, there's plenty of it on YouTube.
I'm just starting off on the high dose Vitamin C journey. Last year my doctor suggested I start taking C but she never said how much so I was only taking 500 to 1,500 mgs per day. I'm trying to stop these non-stop sinus infections that I get every year that knock me down for months at a time. Most of the time antibiotics don't work.

It's good to hear that it can also help with more energy, something that I very much lack. I read of one woman who was taking high dose C for sinus issues, and was very surprised to find that it also helped with her rheumatoid arthritis. Someone was telling me about Andrew Saul's book yesterday so I'll definitely check him out on youTube.
 

pamojja

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I had a PAD diagnosis due to a 80% stenosis at my abdominal aorta bifurcation 8 years ago, with a pain-free walking distance of only 300 meters left. PAD usually is a old age disease which sooner or later affects everyone and is non-reversible. After a risk/benefit analysis of available but really not that effective treatments, I choose to give the natural approach ala Linus Pauling a trial, for example it his '86 book:

How to Live Longer and Feel Better:
  1. Take vitamin C every day, 6 grams to 18 g (6000 to 18,000 miligrams), or more. Do not miss a single day.
  2. Take vitamin E every day, 400 IU, 800 IU, or 1600 IU.
  3. Take one or two Super-B tablets every day, to provide good amounts of the B-vitamins.
  4. Take 25,000 IU vitamin A tablet every day.
  5. Take a mineral supplement every day, such as one tablet of the Bronson vitamin-mineral formula, which provides 100 mg of calcium, 18 mg of iron, 0.15 mg of iodine, 1 mg of copper, 25 mg of magnesium, 3 mg of manganese, 15 mg of zinc, 0.015 mg of molybdenum, 0.015 mg of chromium, and 0.015 mg of selenium.
  6. Keep your intake of ordinary sugar (sucrose, raw sugar, brown sugar, honey) to 50 pounds per year, which is half the present U.S. average. Do not add sugar to tea or coffee. Do not eat high-sugar foods. Avoid sweet desserts. Do not drink soft drink.
  7. Except for avoiding sugar, eat what you like - but not too much of any one food. Eggs and meat are good foods. Also you should eat some vegetables and fruits. Do not eat so much food as to become obese.
  8. Drink plenty of water every day.
  9. Keep active; take some exercise. Do not at any time exert yourself physically to an extent far beyond what you are accustomed to.
  10. Drink alcoholic beverages only in moderation.
  11. Do not smoke cigarettes.
  12. Avoid stress. Work at a job that you like. Be happy with your family.
Additionally recommended l-lysine at 6 g/d for CVD. I'm sure nowadays he would include vitamin D3, K2, more magnesium, CoQ10 and some other amino acids too. Also only took the low dose for vitamin E he recommends (balanced with other tocopherol and tocotrienols), and the dose for vitamin A I reached only recently, when I found it would help with my infrequent psoriasis outbreaks.

This was what I posted over at longecity 3 years ago:

Vitamin C (after a PAD diagnosis almost 5 years ago, together with lysine and all other nutrients recommended by Linus Pauling) - pain-free walking distance improved from mere 3-400 meters up to 2 hours. But only once I exceeded the in his view minimal therapeutic dose of 6g/d. Side-benefits: a since 2 years persistent skin-rush cleared up, hay-fewer symptoms recurring every spring since 12 years got alleviated (though this year it took 30 g/d; in avg. about 20 g/d for 5 years). HbA1c stayed unproportionally low, compared to rising blood glucose. Truly addictive stuff for someone with my health-issues. Only negative side-effect: flatulence.
Note: that hay-fewer turned into a 1 year long chronic bronchitis, of which I got rid naturally too. Since 2 years my walking disability has left completely. And now I also lost a 60% government-certified disability due to that (got no official ME/CFS diagnosis yet).

Cheap ascorbic acid powder is 99.9% C6H8O6. Though I do avoid GMO food, that possibly 0.1% obviously didn't do any harm.


One interesting oral application of high dose Vitamin C is titrating to bowel tolerance as it has been practiced by Robert F. Cathcart, M.D.:

http://vitamincfoundation.org/www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm

Ascorbic acid powder is cheap and easy to try for oneself. Only met one guy on the net which claims he would allergic to the vitamin C even in oranges. Otherwise, everyone's bowel tolerance it different. I can take unto 50 g/d without loose bowels (but flatulence). For others that limit is already much much lower. So better start slow and increase gradually, if you wish to do.
 

ChrisD

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@xrayspex @TigerLilea Hi Guys, thought I would just chip in here... For about a month now I have been undergoing a makeshift High dose Vitamin C trial by oral capsules using the Andrew Saul and Klenner protocols. At first was tapering up from around 5G a day to 15G, but can now tolerate around 50G a day generally with no negative side effects (except for Diarrhea if I don't taper properly) Anyhow, I have found this to be very effective in lowering inflammation, gaining more energy and lessening PEM, I generally always feel very calm now as well. The only down side is that when I don't do it, I feel just as bad as when I started :( I would really like to get a high dose IV but it is ttoo expensive. I had 500mg IV once before and felt incredible for a day and significantly better for a bout two weeks.....