BBC Radio 4: The Life Scientific with Simon Wessely, 14th Feb 2017

trishrhymes

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A new thread just started by @Snowdrop: Is psychiatry scientific.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/is-psychiatry-scientific.49288/

I have only read one of the articles which I think is very pertinent to this discussion about Wessely:

http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/does-psychiatry-need-science

Basically it examines the case of melancholia not being included in the list of psych. illnesses because it actually has demonstrable biological evidence to distinguish it from depression. They couldn't cope with diagnosis based on biology, since all their diagnoses for other psych conditions are based on observation of the patient, ie subjective behavioural criteria. Remind you of anything?

EDIT: @Sidereal has just said on the other thread that the melancholia stuff is rubbish. Pity, I rather liked the idea...
 
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SamanthaJ

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I noticed that - he very carefully didn't mention actual theories about, or treatments of CFS. Not a word about false illness beliefs or deconditioning, no mention of PACE, no mention of the biopsychosocial model in this section, though I seem to remember he did waffle his way through it rather incoherently at the end. So nothing specific we can challenge him on.
He seems to have been vague whilst managing to sound quite technical -"neuro-endocrine signature" etc. Any listeners who knew nothing of his theories would be none the wiser, but might assume he knew what he was talking about. Is it me, or is it pretty unusual for a scientist to NOT want people to understand their theories?
 
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TiredSam

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His treatment of ME patients and ill people in general is clearly driven by a subconsious desire to avenge the fate of his father's family. He should be sectioned and given therapy to protect society at large and for his own good.
Sorry to quote myself, but having had time to reflect upon this I'm no longer sure that he's trying to avenge his father, a more considered diagnosis may be that he's trying to imitate his father's oppressors in some kind of oedipal situation.

I shall keep the forum updated if I make any more shit up.
 

Molly98

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Sorry to quote myself, but having had time to reflect upon this I'm no longer sure that he's trying to avenge his father, a more considered diagnosis may be that he's trying to imitate his father's oppressors in some kind of oedipal situation.

I shall keep the forum updated if I make any more shit up.
Perhaps creating a new name and diagnostic criteria to put forward for inclusion in the next DSM manual based on your online clinical observations of Wessely may be in order Dr Sam.
You could be well on your way to knighthood for your contributions to Psychiatry if you could do that.
Keep us updated and if you could in due course diagnose St Esther and Rev White that would be great. (it's beginning to sound a bit like cludo).
 

user9876

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Sorry to quote myself, but having had time to reflect upon this I'm no longer sure that he's trying to avenge his father, a more considered diagnosis may be that he's trying to imitate his father's oppressors in some kind of oedipal situation.

I shall keep the forum updated if I make any more shit up.
Of course maybe its nothing to do with his childhood. He might just be a publicity seeking idiot.
 

trishrhymes

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Perhaps creating a new name and diagnostic criteria to put forward for inclusion in the next DSM manual based on your online clinical observations of Wessely may be in order Dr Sam.
You could be well on your way to knighthood for your contributions to Psychiatry if you could do that.
Keep us updated and if you could in due course diagnose St Esther and Rev White that would be great. (it's beginning to sound a bit like cludo).
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Thank you @TiredSam and @Molly98 . They say laughter is the best medicine, and I sure needed some.
 

RogerBlack

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I thought of ( while listening to "Thinking Allowed" on R4)

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...eta-ethnography-of-qualitative-studies.48775/

A carefully selected ethnographic look at the problem could be quite interesting.
I note a past program in 2005
Laurie Taylor discovers a long-suppressed medical scandal where a leading PSYCHIATRIST of the early 20th century came to believe that mental illnesses were the product of chronic infection that poisoned the brain.

A ruthless course of surgical treatment then followed which many patients did not survive.

What does the case say about the relationship between doctors and patients and are there any contemporary resonances of this case?
Though he has also done a less helpful piece apparently swallowing whole the MUS idea.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00lbn9y
 

Dx Revision Watch

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It is quite unbelievable that a psychiatrist should admit to stopping doing research on an illness because of 'threats and abuse'. Threats and abuse are a daily experience for all psychiatrists and not that uncommon for other medics trying to help people in distress. If you are a psychiatrist you are expected to handle paranoia, psychopathy, mania and all sorts of other conditions which include threats and abuse very often. Yet a psychiatrist with any respect for the patients would take this in their stride.

It is just incredible that a psychiatrist should think that they are justified to wimp out of their profession in this way. It is pretty terrifying that the British psychiatric establishment have enough respect for this behaviour to vote him in as their president. I have huge respect for those psychiatrists who handle serious mental health problems - including those who saved my wife's life. In comparison Wessely's behaviour seems demeaning to the medical profession as a whole.

The media has been claiming Wessely had retired from CFS research since the Sarah Bosely Guardian articles in 2001:

“Prof Wessely has quit the field – and is not the only professional to have ceased involvement with CFS.”

Storm brews over ‘all in mind’ theory of ME, 20 September 2001
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,554693,00.html


“Simon Wessely, of the Department of Psychological Medicine at Guy’s, King’s and St Thomas’s School of Medicine in London, is a former key figure in the study of ME/CFS who has felt the heat and largely backed out of the kitchen.”

A very modern epidemic, Guardian, 27 September 2001
http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/medicalscience/story/0,,559001,00.html


In 2008, on my now archived ME agenda site, I listed his output for CFS papers published between 2002 and 2008. Not bad for someone who had "retired".


Roberts A, Papadopoulos AS, Wessely S, Chalder T, Cleare AJ.

Salivary cortisol output before and after cognitive behavioural therapy for chronic fatigue syndrome
Journal of Affective Disorders, 2008, Oct.

Cho HJ, Bhugra D, Wessely S.

‘Physical or psychological?’- a comparative study of causal attribution for chronic fatigue in Brazilian and British primary care patients. Acta Psychiatr Scand. 2008 Jul;118(1):34-41. Epub 2008 May 22. PMID: 18498433 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]


1: Harvey SB, Wadsworth M, Wessely S, Hotopf M.

Etiology of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: Testing Popular HypothesesPsychosom Med. 2008 Mar 31; [Epub ahead of print] PMID: 18378866 [PubMed – as supplied by publisher]

2: Cho HJ, Menezes PR, Bhugra D, Wessely S.

The awareness of chronic fatigue syndrome: A comparative study in Brazil and the United Kingdom.
J Psychosom Res. 2008 Apr;64(4):351-5. PMID: 18374733 [PubMed – in process]

11: Kanaan RA, Lepine JP, Wessely SC.

The association or otherwise of the functional somatic syndromes
J Psychosom Med. 2007 Dec;69(9):855-9. Review. PMID: 18040094 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

12: Rimes KA, Goodman R, Hotopf M, Wessely S, Meltzer H, Chalder T.

Incidence, prognosis, and risk factors for fatigue and chronic fatigue syndrome in adolescents: a prospective community study.
Pediatrics. 2007 Mar;11 (3):e603-9. PMID: 17332180 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

23: Quarmby L, Rimes KA, Deale A, Wessely S, Chalder T.

Cognitive behaviour therapy for chronic fatigue syndrome: comparison of outcomes within and outside the confines of a randomised controlled trial.
Behav Res Ther. 2007 Jun;45(6):1085-94. Epub 2006 Oct 30. PMID: 17074300 [PubMed – in process]

32: Jerjes WK, Taylor NF, Peters TJ, Wessely S, Cleare AJ.

Urinary cortisol and cortisol metabolite excretion in chronic fatigue syndrome.
Psychosom Med. 2006 Jul-Aug;68(4):578-82. PMID: 16868267 [PubMed – in process]

43: Reid S, Chalder T, Cleare A, Hotopf M, Wessely S.

Chronic fatigue syndrome.Clin Evid. 2005 Dec;(14):1366-78. Review. No abstract available. PMID: 16620458 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

44: Cho HJ, Skowera A, Cleare A, Wessely S.

Chronic fatigue syndrome: an update focusing on phenomenology and pathophysiology.Curr Opin Psychiatry. 2006 Jan;19(1):67-73. Review. PMID: 16612182 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

52: Jerjes WK, Peters TJ, Taylor NF, Wood PJ, Wessely S, Cleare AJ.

Diurnal excretion of urinary cortisol, cortisone, and cortisol metabolites in chronic fatigue syndrome.J Psychosom Res. 2006 Feb;60(2):145-53. PMID: 16439267 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

54: Huibers MJ, Wessely S.

The act of diagnosis: pros and cons of labelling chronic fatigue syndrome.Psychol Med. 2006 Jul;36(7):895-900. Epub 2006 Jan 10. Review. PMID: 16403245 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

60: Cho HJ, Wessely S.

Chronic fatigue syndrome: an overview.Rev Bras Psiquiatr. 2005 Sep;27(3):174-5. Epub 2005 Oct 4. No abstract available. PMID: 16224602 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

71: Jerjes WK, Cleare AJ, Wessely S, Wood PJ, Taylor NF.

Diurnal patterns of salivary cortisol and cortisone output in chronic fatigue syndrome.
J Affect Disord. 2005 Aug;87(2-3):299-304. PMID: 15922454 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

73: Reid S, Chalder T, Cleare A, Hotopf M, Wessely S.

Chronic fatigue syndrome.
Clin Evid. 2004 Dec;(12):1578-93. Review. No abstract available. Update in: Clin Evid. 2005 Dec;(14):1366-78. PMID: 15865734 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

74: Cho HJ, Hotopf M, Wessely S.

The placebo response in the treatment of chronic fatigue syndrome: a systematic review and meta analysis.
Psychosom Med. 2005 Mar-Apr;67(2):301-13. Review. PMID: 15784798 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE] MEagenda 09:42, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

91: Reid S, Chalder T, Cleare A, Hotopf M, Wessely S.

Chronic fatigue syndrome.
Clin Evid. 2003 Dec;(10):1289-303. Review. No abstract available. Update in: Clin Evid. 2004 Dec;(12):

103: Woolley J, Allen R, Wessely S.

Alcohol use in chronic fatigue syndrome.
J Psychosom Res. 2004 Feb;56(2):203-6. PMID: 15016579 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

104: Winkler AS, Blair D, Marsden JT, Peters TJ, Wessely S, Cleare AJ.

Autonomic function and serum erythropoietin levels in chronic fatigue syndrome.
J Psychosom Res. 2004 Feb;56(2):179-83. PMID: 15016575 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

106: Roberts AD, Wessely S, Chalder T, Papadopoulos A, Cleare AJ.

Salivary cortisol response to awakening in chronic fatigue syndrome.
Br J Psychiatry. 2004 Feb;184:136-41. PMID: 14754825 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

109: Lyall M, Peakman M, Wessely S.

A systematic review and critical evaluation of the immunology of chronic
fatigue syndrome.J Psychosom Res. 2003 Aug;55(2):79-90. Review. PMID: 12932505 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

118: Fischhoff B, Wessely S.

Managing patients with inexplicable health problems.
BMJ. 2003 Mar 15;326(7389):595-7. Review. No abstract available. PMID: 12637409 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

119: Reid S, Chalder T, Cleare A, Hotopf M, Wessely S.

Chronic fatigue syndrome.
Clin Evid. 2002 Dec;(8):1075-88. Review. No abstract available. Update in: Clin
Evid. 2003 Dec;(10):1289-303. PMID: 12603930 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

122: Wessely S.

Women experienced chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia as stigmatising.Evid Based Ment Health. 2002 Nov;5(4):127. No abstract available. PMID: 12440469 [PubMed]

125: Reid S, Chalder T, Cleare A, Hotopf M, Wessely S.

Chronic fatigue syndrome.
Clin Evid. 2002 Jun;(7):966-78. Review. No abstract available. Update in: Clin Evid. 2002 Dec (8):1075-88. PMID: 12230719 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

134: Reid S, Wessely S, Crayford T, Hotopf M.

Frequent attenders with medically unexplained symptoms: service use and costs in secondary care. Br J Psychiatry. 2002 Mar;180:248-53. PMID: 11872517 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

136: Clark C, Buchwald D, MacIntyre A, Sharpe M, Wessely S.

Chronic fatigue syndrome: a step towards agreement.
Lancet. 2002 Jan 12;359(9301):97-8. No abstract available. Erratum in: Lancet
2002 Apr 13;359(9314):1352. Lancet 2002 May 25;359(9320):1866. PMID: 11809249 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]
 
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PhoenixDown

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PhoenixDown

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Note how yet again Wessely is on his own being interviewed as an expert with no body on the opposing side to debate. Personally I think he's afraid to publicly debate.

This reminds me of an email I sent to Simon Wessely asking for his position on perpetuating factors in ME/CFS, and asking for peer reviewed evidence to back up his claims.
I also asked have you ever sat down and debated with ME/CFS patients who hold opposing views to you?

He refused to give a straight answer and I got nowhere.
 

Sean

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I think Wessely knows he can't survive proper scrutiny, and that it is coming big time, and that he can't stop it. It is all now just delaying and obfuscation, in a desperate attempt to mitigate his culpability.

His whole defence will be reduced to: I had honourable intentions. No, really, I did. Please believe me.
 

RogerBlack

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In 2008, on my now archived ME agenda site, I listed his output for CFS papers published between 2002 and 2008. Not bad for someone who had "retired".
I searched pubmed for the list of publications with him as an author. Including comments. I investigated those that looked like they may refer to CFS, and if CFS was in the abstract, included them.
2016
Mortality of people with chronic fatigue syndrome: a retrospective cohort study in England and Wales from the South London and Maudsley NHS Foundation Trust Biomedical Research Centre (SLaM BRC) Clinical Record Interactive Search (CRIS) Register.

2015 (a prevalance study)
Chronic fatigue syndrome.
2013 How should functional somatic syndromes be diagnosed?

2012 Impact Commentaries. The nature of fatigue: a comparison of chronic "postviral" fatigue with neuromuscular and affective disorders.
2011
Chronic fatigue syndrome: understanding a complex illness.

2011
Two sides of the same coin? On the history and phenomenology of chronic fatigue and burnout.

2011
Chronic fatigue syndrome in an ethnically diverse population: the influence of psychosocial adversity and physical inactivity.

(perhaps the only paper with him as an author I completely agree with)
2011
Investigation into the presence of and serological response to XMRV in CFS patients.
(comment)
2010
Making sense of fatigue: the need for a balanced approach.
2009
A systematic review of chronic fatigue, its syndromes and ethnicity: prevalence, severity, co-morbidity and coping.
2009
An evaluation of exclusionary medical/psychiatric conditions in the definition of chronic fatigue syndrome
2009
Tired all the time: can new research on fatigue help clinicians?
2009
Comparative epidemiology of chronic fatigue syndrome in Brazilian and British primary care: prevalence and recognition.
I'll throw in https://www.amazon.co.uk/Clinical-Trials-Psychiatry-Brian-Everitt/dp/0470513020
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fatigue-Window-Clinical-Cognitive-Neuropsychology/dp/0262042274
too.

He is astoundingly bad at this concept of 'retirement'.