B6 VITAMIN PROBLEMS
- Thread starter zzz0r
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I have to be careful with B6, as it seemed to make me physically numb (hands - not sure about feet). But this was years ago. I seem OK with small amounts now.
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Source Natural's makes a sublingual B6 (P5P)... so it bypasses the stomach.
http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Coenzymated-B-6-100-mg-60-Tablets/1068
http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Coenzymated-B-6-100-mg-60-Tablets/1068
I've just discovered that my former dose of 33mg P5P is now too high. I've reduced it to 1/2. My symptoms were of high ammonia/peroxynitrite: pressure in head, squinty eyes, slight breathlessnes, restlessness, particular taste in mouth...relieved by ammonia-reducing supps.
Gut bacteria can produce B6, and other B vitamins.
I think that's one reason why people can have negative reactions to B supplements.
There are people who have tested high in B6 who do not supplement. Many of them have neuropathy.
This may be from overgrowth of B6 producing bacteria in the gut. ( a guess )
I think that's one reason why people can have negative reactions to B supplements.
There are people who have tested high in B6 who do not supplement. Many of them have neuropathy.
This may be from overgrowth of B6 producing bacteria in the gut. ( a guess )
Interesting. Do you have any links to this info? I found this paper on B6 neuropathy via Wikipedia.
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It makes sense. B6, magnesium and resistant starch users report having complex dreams and dream recalling.
The only links I have are about B6 being formed in the gut from bacteria.
https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Bifidobacterium_adolescentis
http://omicsgroup.org/journals/shou...dered-as-vitamin-supplements-vms.1000e124.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3298082/
I haven't been able, in the past, to find a case of elevated or excess B6, pyroxidine, production, from over-production in the gut. ( That's why I'm guessing.) I've read anecdotes of people with elevated B6 who haven't supplemented it. ( Where did it come from? Could it be from an occult source, or bacterial overgrowth?)
I've not had my own serum B6 measured, but I can no longer tolerate B6 supplements, or certain other B's.
I have had serum folate measured, though. The last time, it was extremely elevated. I had stopped folate supps. for at least 6mths. I had also decreased high folate foods, as well as fermented foods.
My guess is that I had an overgrowth of folate producing bacteria in the gut.
Since the gut can produce numerous vitamins, including B6, I'm guessing that, in a dysbiotic gut, B6 could be overproduced, and cause side-effects.
This is an extrapolation, so, of course I could be wrong. I believe it's quite possible, though.
https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Bifidobacterium_adolescentis
http://omicsgroup.org/journals/shou...dered-as-vitamin-supplements-vms.1000e124.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3298082/
I haven't been able, in the past, to find a case of elevated or excess B6, pyroxidine, production, from over-production in the gut. ( That's why I'm guessing.) I've read anecdotes of people with elevated B6 who haven't supplemented it. ( Where did it come from? Could it be from an occult source, or bacterial overgrowth?)
I've not had my own serum B6 measured, but I can no longer tolerate B6 supplements, or certain other B's.
I have had serum folate measured, though. The last time, it was extremely elevated. I had stopped folate supps. for at least 6mths. I had also decreased high folate foods, as well as fermented foods.
My guess is that I had an overgrowth of folate producing bacteria in the gut.
Since the gut can produce numerous vitamins, including B6, I'm guessing that, in a dysbiotic gut, B6 could be overproduced, and cause side-effects.
This is an extrapolation, so, of course I could be wrong. I believe it's quite possible, though.
be careful with supplementing with B6, and even P5P. I would avoid it unless you absolutely need it for healing.
B6 can and does cause neuropathy that can take years to heal, if it heals at all.
As little as 20mg of B6 per day can cause toxicity - http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Nutrition/B6-Toxicity/show/2642?page=1
B6 can and does cause neuropathy that can take years to heal, if it heals at all.
As little as 20mg of B6 per day can cause toxicity - http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Nutrition/B6-Toxicity/show/2642?page=1
Look out for B6 in supplements. 5-HTP and melatonin often also contain B6, which is stupid, as the two supplements are often recommended to be taken together, and the person may already be getting B6 in a multivitamin supplement.
I spent ages looking for melatonin without B6, selected one that did not list B6 as an ingredient, only to find when it arrived that it DID contain it!
I spent ages looking for melatonin without B6, selected one that did not list B6 as an ingredient, only to find when it arrived that it DID contain it!
I think that @ahmo is correct. B6 can cause overproduction of ammonia especially to people with CBS mutations.
Also people with dysbiosis that already have high ammonia production in the gut ,as bad bacteria produce ammonia ,would also have problems.
I am wondering if the pain in the stomach when taking P5P could be due to H. pylori. You can google b6 and h.pylori relationship and you will see articles of how b6 assists h. pylori movement and reproduction.
Again there is a connection here. H. pylori could also produce high ammonia in the gut and in the stomach that would explain the rest of the symptoms.
I have tried the sublingual P5P and it gives me no symptoms at all! So I am wondering if it actually working... The same sublingual pill if i swalow it can give me the symptoms I mentioned at my first post including stomach pain.
Also people with dysbiosis that already have high ammonia production in the gut ,as bad bacteria produce ammonia ,would also have problems.
I am wondering if the pain in the stomach when taking P5P could be due to H. pylori. You can google b6 and h.pylori relationship and you will see articles of how b6 assists h. pylori movement and reproduction.
Again there is a connection here. H. pylori could also produce high ammonia in the gut and in the stomach that would explain the rest of the symptoms.
I have tried the sublingual P5P and it gives me no symptoms at all! So I am wondering if it actually working... The same sublingual pill if i swalow it can give me the symptoms I mentioned at my first post including stomach pain.
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There are about 3 threads talking about b6 right now... B6 supplementation must be paired with zinc and magnesium. If you feel better on P5P is perhaps because that less zinc is needed.
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@zz0r I've been tracking my high ammonia for a couple months. I now call it ammonia/peroxy, since clearly in some instances it's due to over exertion, oxidative stress. There clearly seems to have been some shift in me. I don't know whether it can be attributed to good bacteria now producing B6, or bad bacteria increasing my overall burden of ammonia...However, I feel fine with the lower P5P, and again last night, self-tested for none, which might be the new norm. It made an enormous positive difference to my mindset when I began it a couple years ago.
I've just decided to end my ammonia quest. I've found that both B2 and B6 increased it, that I don't need the higher amounts of those vitamins, and with the help of Martin Pall's recommendations, no longer feel it to be a major issue. I'm willing to let the reason It suddenly became such an issue remain a mystery. Maybe it's really pointing to a layer of healing which now makes the B6 unnecessary. OTOH, I'm engaged in a major fungal/bacterial protocol, and will see how things shift after these next 6 weeks. cheers.
I've just decided to end my ammonia quest. I've found that both B2 and B6 increased it, that I don't need the higher amounts of those vitamins, and with the help of Martin Pall's recommendations, no longer feel it to be a major issue. I'm willing to let the reason It suddenly became such an issue remain a mystery. Maybe it's really pointing to a layer of healing which now makes the B6 unnecessary. OTOH, I'm engaged in a major fungal/bacterial protocol, and will see how things shift after these next 6 weeks. cheers.
Very late to this party. But my latest blood work is the first time I've seen elevated serum B6. In the past, I've been deficient along with other B vitamins after gut illnesses tanked my parietal cells. It was discovered as the cause of my iron deficient anemia.
Anyway, my level is four times higher than the top of Labcorp's normal range. I stopped supplementing and doc is running all the B vitamins and folate in the near future.
I'm just wondering if there's a decent source somewhere about all of the different causes for elevated serum B6. I get the gut dysbiosis thing as a potential cause, but I haven't had those issues in years. Something tells me this is something new I'm dealing with now.
Thanks!
Anyway, my level is four times higher than the top of Labcorp's normal range. I stopped supplementing and doc is running all the B vitamins and folate in the near future.
I'm just wondering if there's a decent source somewhere about all of the different causes for elevated serum B6. I get the gut dysbiosis thing as a potential cause, but I haven't had those issues in years. Something tells me this is something new I'm dealing with now.
Thanks!
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I had a question regarding B6. Was wondering if it's smart to just blindly support the Transsulfuration Pathway? The Methylation cycle wants it's ingredients to keep spinning. Seems that by taking B6 or especially p5p we are removing perhaps very needed homocysteine from that cycle. I know most people will think we're already overloaded with cysteine but maybe not. I know the Transsulfuration path has needed by products also, like Taurine.
I'm having some success with methlatyion supps on a smaller scale and wondering if I'm shooting myself in the foot by taking p5p?
I'm having some success with methlatyion supps on a smaller scale and wondering if I'm shooting myself in the foot by taking p5p?
Very late to this party. But my latest blood work is the first time I've seen elevated serum B6. In the past, I've been deficient along with other B vitamins after gut illnesses tanked my parietal cells. It was discovered as the cause of my iron deficient anemia.
Anyway, my level is four times higher than the top of Labcorp's normal range. I stopped supplementing and doc is running all the B vitamins and folate in the near future.
I'm just wondering if there's a decent source somewhere about all of the different causes for elevated serum B6. I get the gut dysbiosis thing as a potential cause, but I haven't had those issues in years. Something tells me this is something new I'm dealing with now.
Thanks!
Anyway, my level is four times higher than the top of Labcorp's normal range. I stopped supplementing and doc is running all the B vitamins and folate in the near future.
I'm just wondering if there's a decent source somewhere about all of the different causes for elevated serum B6. I get the gut dysbiosis thing as a potential cause, but I haven't had those issues in years. Something tells me this is something new I'm dealing with now.
Thanks!
I've read this, but never seen any evidence of it. It would be an easy answer, that's for sure. I've read that gut bacteria can produce folate and even folic acid. My folate is super high and I still don't know why. According to my OAT I've got a few markers for yeast, fungal and bacteria, but I'm leaning towards a co-factor issue. I've been treating the gut and it hasn't brought down my folate serum levels.