Autoimmune study from Norway?

[Tony Mach]

Dr. Bieger mentions in his latest video an "autoimune CFS study from Norway". Does anybody have any details?

 

[liquid sky]

I wonder if he is referring to the study where they are using rituximab to deplete b cells? I believe they concluded that ME/CHF is an autoimmune condition due to being improved with this treatment . B cell depletion is used to destroy B cells and immune complexes they form that attack a person's own tissues. Norway is where this study was done, but it has not been published yet.

 

[fla]

That norway "autoimmune" study is completed and submitted but not yet published and is being discussed in this thread.

 

[Tony Mach]

Thanks, that must have been the study he meant.

BTW, I think the "autoimmune" conecpt is flawed anyway. Yes, the immune system mounts an attack against a part of its own body (so it is "auto"immune in this sense), but I think it NEVER does it without an outside insult (so I don't think it is "auto"immune in that sense). See gluten in celiac disease or coxsackie-infections in myocarditis for reference.

 

[liquid sky]

That's the first study, I think. There was only a few patients. Three, I think. There is a second study with 30 patients, also in Norway. It should be done, but not published yet. The rumor was that it was effective and the researchers believed it was due to an autoimmune aspect of ME.

 

[redo]

If anyone is curious about this study, than please do ask the scientist about which journal it has been submitted to:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/show...XMRV-Treatment&p=190635&viewfull=1#post190635

I am sure he wouldn't mind the question.

 

[Snow Leopard]

I am sure he wouldn't mind the question.

Well it isn't always good ettiqute to do such things, some journals actually have temporary discussion embargos before publication...

 

[currer]

I saw the Invest in ME presentation from Fluge and Mella. In fact I spoke to them after the conference.
We were all told not to talk about the presentation as it was pre-publication.

Judy Mikovits was there and saw the presentation too. In fact she came up on stage to do her talk after the Norwegians. I did not get the impression that they were in competition to find a cause, rather that they were scientists sharing data and keeping up with each other's findings.

I'm sure the WPI are well aware of the Norwegian science and have incorporated the Norwegian's hypothesis into their own theory of retroviral causation. They do not exclude each other - in fact they support each other.

 

[redo]

Well it isn't always good ettiqute to do such things, some journals actually have temporary discussion embargos before publication...

Asking him which journal it is, must be harmless (I can't think of a reason it wont be). And I am guessing since this study does not break with the status quo (this does not oppose another groups study), probably means there are noone who wants to "fight it". When no one opposes it, I am guessing they have it in the pipeline, and know approximately when it'll go into print.

 

[fla]

This site hints that the primary outcome failed but some of the secondary outcomes succeeded: "They had found positive results for some secondary outcomes, but not for the primary outcome (self reported symptoms and quality of life at three months 2)"

 

[liquid sky]

This site hints that the primary outcome failed but some of the secondary outcomes succeeded: "They had found positive results for some secondary outcomes, but not for the primary outcome (self reported symptoms and quality of life at three months 2)"

I checked that site and could not find the info on the study you mention. I read the article on the Invest In ME conference and looked around the site. Probably my foggy mind. Could you please point me more directly to the area that speaks of this study? Thanks, in advance.