Autism and XMRV

[FernRhizome]

Hi bakercape:
If CFS has made my life hell, having two asperger's family members, an older brother & my Dad, with Asperger's has made it 100% worse. Because they have no empathy and no understanding. I can't imagine two more horrendous diagnoses in one family than "invisible" CFS and a workaholic Asperger's Dad who can't "get" it. If I can walk across a room than I can't "be" sick....! It would be the most awful and ironic connection between two conditions. ~FernRhizome

 

[FernRhizome]

Hoping to get someone to give an XMRV talk in my state at some point. ~FernRhizome

 

[Athene]

Scorpio Rising

Your message is insulting and offensive and completely out of order.

I have provided online sources for Brian Deer's connections with drug companies and offered to send scanned hard copy sources for everything else I have stated.

Your inflammatory language and personal attack on me demonstrate clearly that YOU do not have proof for your assertions and are compelled to resort to personal insults instead.

Since this is the first and only message you have ever posted to this forum, I wonder what was your actual motive in signing up here? To acquire some respect for yourself within this forum, you ought to apologise to me for your inappropriate outburst.

 

[Scorpio Rising]

Athene's claims

Ok, Athene, I hope visitors to this board pay close attention to this exchange, and use what they learn to judge you and your claims on any matters at all.

I ask you to identify your sources for your allegations that this man Deer has, firstly, "links to drug companies", and secondly, a father involved in vaccine development.

These were your claims, and you say you can provide your sources.

Visitors can now see whether you give us the names of these sources, with the appropriate references so that we can find them. And we'll be able to see whether these sources have reputations, street addresses and other means by which we can assess them, or whether, in fact, if they exist at all, they aren't merely anonymous bloggers, like yourself, who pass round these allegations, or a clique of anti-vaccine cranks who fabricate allegations for others, often unwittingly, to repeat on the internet.

So, over to you. From where do these allegations spring, against an award-winning journalist, working for a major newspaper, both of which have reputations which they have placed on the line?

This should be interesting.

 

[Martlet]

Athene - Since this thread is now so long, it might be helpful to readers if you would provide a link to the post where you cited/linked to your references.

Scorpio - I think you made your point in the first half of your post and the second half looks like a thinly-disguised personal attack.

I would like to remind everyone that while arguing points makes for a lively and enjoyable forum, we ask that you do it respectfully, without personal attacks. Check for those "you" phrases!

 

[susan]

vaccination shedule.

Hi Marylib,
Can you direct me to the site where Annette Whittmore gives info on a vaccination schedules. We have a new baby coming and daughter-in-law tells my husband yesterday that they want to vaccinate it on day 2 with Hep B or C and she is very unhappy. She is a trained nurse and works in Intensive Care. This is an unexpected baby at 39 yrs.

 

[Athene]

Hard copy

Scorpio Rising,

All the information I quoted was in hard copy, as I have already explained in two previous posts to this thread.

Please send me your email address in a private message and I will send you scans of the articles, as I have already offered in two previous posts.

 

[Martlet]

I have requested a copy of the articles to which Athene refers. She found a link to one of them online and is trying to scan the second.

The link is here

Of course, people can argue with what is contained in the article, but please, let's put an end to any questioning of another's integrity.

 

[Jody]

Athene,

Thanks for going to the extra work of scanning that material.

That is thoughtful of you to go to the trouble so that other people can read it and get the most out of the information you've referred tp.

I note that Martlet mentioned you're trying to scan the second. Can't speak for you but for me, if I say I'm trying to do something chances are, that may indicate I am running into some snags.

I could be reading something in here that ... isn't. If so, ignore this. But if on the other hand you are running into difficulties, I personally think one source is just fine.

 

[JillBohr]

Hep B Vaccine

Hi Marylib,
Can you direct me to the site where Annette Whittmore gives info on a vaccination schedules. We have a new baby coming and daughter-in-law tells my husband yesterday that they want to vaccinate it on day 2 with Hep B or C and she is very unhappy. She is a trained nurse and works in Intensive Care. This is an unexpected baby at 39 yrs.

I do not know what her recommended schedule is but personally, I would hold off on that vaccine. It sounds like your daughter-in-law is in a high risk category for being exposed to Hep B. People in the medical community are at a higher risk since they can be exposed to Hep B patients. However, I think the Hep B vaccination is given at birth for two reasons. One, in case the mother is positive for Hep B, this will help the baby build immunity. The other is because you need three vaccinations to build up the immunity and the schedule is set for when the babies are at the doctors (very practical and very economical). However, if she will not wait until the baby is a teenager and has a higher risk of exposure, I would at least try to wait until the baby is 6 months old.

 

[Advocate]

Advocate:
where is the Maine naturopath Amy Yasko? I live in Maine myself. I have CFS and two family members with Asperger's. Are you also in Maine? I am hoping to bring Dr. Bell to Maine to give a talk after a few more papers are published on XMRV. ~FernRhizome

Hi Fern,

Amy Yasko is in Bethel, Maine, but I don't think she sees patients any more. You might start out by participating in a yahoo discussion group here: ://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/CFS_Yasko

Good luck with setting up a talk by Dr. Bell. He's a peach!

 

[Scorpio Rising]

Athene's allegations

Okay, we have a blog, written, according to the blogger, in consultation with Andrew Wakefield. The man himself explains how he met with Wakefield, and has written down his account.

No reference, much less any evidence, whatsoever to any "links" between Deer and any drug companies. No reference, or evidence, to Deer's father being part of the team which invented MMR.

Come on, Athene, gives us the references for these allegations that you made.

Let's really get to the bottom of how the anti-vaxxers operate.

 

[Athene]

I'm ignoring you

Scorpio Rising,
So far you have only posted three messages to this forum and they have all been personal attacks against me. To me, it's beginning to look as if that may have been your only reason for joining this forum!
I have put you on my ignore list which means I cannot see any messages that you post. I have better ways to spend my time than quarrelling online with a stranger.

 

[Scorpio Rising]

So there you have it

So a member of this forum posts the most extraordinary, defamatory allegations against a respected journalist, working for an internationally-known newspaper, accusing him of links with drugs companies and of having a father who invented the MMR vaccine.

Edited: No reason to make it personal, again.

Perhaps visitors would like to see Mr Deer's summary of his reports in The London Times:

http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm

Maybe the moderators could explain to me this board's policy on defaming third parties. I dare say Mr Deer has no idea that these claims are being made against him, but I wonder how long it will be before Athene's statements are picked up and repeated somewhere else?

Moderator: I'll be locking the thread for now, see my post below regarding libel.

 

[Countrygirl]

Can anyone clarify this for me? Insel said that they were on XMRV before the Science paper was published, but that he has not been able to get the paper or data on the autism/XMRV work? Why can't Insel get this data if he was able to get the XMRV info before it was published?

I have just found this on an autism website: Autismcalciumchannelopathy....

According to the header, which is written in red, a small scale study at the Whittemore Petterson Institute has found that 40% of autistic chilldren have tested positive for XMRV (which we have already heard) but it adds that (?a further) nearly 60% were positive for XMRV antibodies. I''m not clear if that is referring to the remaining 60% that were not positive for active infection. I guess it does. It states that this work is, as yet, unpublished. Anyone found any more on this? Sounds very interesting.

 

[Recovery Soon]

So a member of this forum posts the most extraordinary, defamatory allegations against a respected journalist, working for an internationally-known newspaper, accusing him of links with drugs companies and of having a father who invented the MMR vaccine.

When challenged, the first thing that happens is that the ground is shifted, and a blog is cited, making all kinds of other smeary points, but giving no evidence whatsoever on the allegations.

Then the person who made the allegations, not only fails to substantiate them, but seeks refuge in; "I'm ignoring you".

Perhaps visitors would like to see Mr Deer's summary of his reports in The London Times:

http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm

Maybe the moderators could explain to me this board's policy on defaming third parties. I dare say Mr Deer has no idea that these claims are being made against him, but I wonder how long it will be before Athene's statements are picked up and repeated somewhere else?

This is a valid point. In the interest of fact finding for the benefit of all, defaming allegations should be clearly substantiated or not made at all.

Otherwise, there is no way for the rest of us to separate fact from fiction.

Asking for substantiation in response should not be viewed as aggressive. It is very reasonable.

Moderator: It wasn't the asking for sources that was considered aggressive (I actually suggested that Scorpio ask for sources.) It was the insinuation that Athene was a fabricator and a crank. That type of baggage is not necessary to a discussion.

 

[Robin]

Maybe the moderators could explain to me this board's policy on defaming third parties.

We don't have a policy because the issue has never come up. We are looking into the matter.

I'm locking the thread for now.

 

[lpgautogas]

Nice post...Thank you very much!!......