Arsenic Trioxide kills HIV - perhaps mecfs, too ?

[roller]

Leukaemia drug offers hope of an HIV cure to replace the 'dangerous' stem cell transplant

A leukaemia drug may completely rid HIV-positive patients of the virus that slowly leads to AIDS, scientists claim.

Trials on four infected monkeys showed two given arsenic trioxide had no detectable levels of the virus 80 days after treatment.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7104123/Leukaemia-drug-cure-HIV-researchers-claim.html

 

[roller]

if rituximab was worth a shot, then this possibly even more ?

the stem cell transplant, i understand, is taken from donors that are resistant to the HIV virus

not sure, whose stem cells you are planning to get, @Daffodil ?
our own or donor ?

 

[Hip]

Some years ago I looked into trying arsenic trioxide as an antiviral for the coxsackievirus B infections found in ME/CFS.

This study (full paper here) details the potent antiviral effects of arsenic trioxide on coxsackievirus B. Arsenic trioxide reduced the amount of enteroviral RNA in mice brains by 97% after just 7 days at a daily dose of 1 mg of arsenic trioxide per kg body weight (this was in an acute coxsackievirus B3 infection).

You can buy arsenic trioxide as a drug (Trisenox).



However, the carcinogenic properties of arsenic were a concern to me: I tried to quantify the increased cancer risk from taking a course of arsenic trioxide in this post.

I calculated that arsenic trioxide treatment will increase your lifetime risk of cancer from arsenic from 1 in 500 (a risk you have already if you live in the US/Europe, due to regular environmental arsenic exposure), to perhaps something around 1 in 350.



Arsenic trioxide is also the drug used by Dr Walter Tarello and his wife to cure their ME/CFS caused by chronic Staphylococcus bacteremia. Though this is a very unusual form of ME/CFS. See this thread.

 

[roller]

most poisons are carcinogenic?

Sweden indicate a risk of lung cancer 6–10 times higher for the most exposed workers compared with the general population. Long-term ingestion of arsenic trioxide either in drinking water or as a medical treatment can lead to skin cancer.

In Austria, there lived the so-called "arsenic eaters of Styria", who ingested doses far beyond the lethal dose of arsenic trioxide without any apparent harm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic_trioxide

french fries are carciogenic, beta carotene is.
rituximab not established, but some cancers .
diamox, not established, but teratogenic (defects on limbs).

is there an infection risk with IVIG ?
some infectious culprits are unknown or "invisible" (alzheimers, depression, prion diseases...)

somehow, it seems like "as long we dont know..."

 

[roller]

we dont know, what causes the disease.

perhaps, its not THIS "1" pathogen causing mess.
but what happens, if you only tackle this one thing ?

could a lot of the medical troubles even originate from this approach ?
perhaps, we would have less medical problems if we would take "slayers" like arsenic trioxide ?

arsenic trioxide as a strong poison seems a "quite all around slayer med".
i dont think (...), that anyone would have to take this for long.
for my guess, not as long as we are taking other things ...

if someone knows precisely what to fight, and thats the only thing, then a specified med may be right.

we dont know nothing.

 

[roller]

sorry, long rant, just a general one.

and thanks for the info on dr. walter tarello, a veterinary.

on the wiki page it says the uni hong kong developed a liquid version, in addition to the current injection arsenic trioxide.
unfortunatley, its very expensive.

 

[Charles555nc]

Some years ago I looked into trying arsenic trioxide as an antiviral for the coxsackievirus B infections found in ME/CFS.

This study (full paper here) details the potent antiviral effects of arsenic trioxide on coxsackievirus B. Arsenic trioxide reduced the amount of enteroviral RNA in mice brains by 97% after just 7 days at a daily dose of 1 mg of arsenic trioxide per kg body weight (this was in an acute coxsackievirus B3 infection).

You can buy arsenic trioxide as a drug (Trisenox).

See this thread.

1. How can I try this drug?
2. is it available online or is there a good way to convince my doctor to let me try it? (I am cox B positive)
3. is it expensive?

 

[Hip]

1. How can I try this drug?
2. is it available online or is there a good way to convince my doctor to let me try it? (I am cox B positive)
3. is it expensive?

I've seen arsenic trioxide injections available here for $58, but is not the sort of drug you would want to try without medical advice and supervision, as it can cause serious side effects, and there are the carcinogenicity issue that I mentioned in the thread.

 

[Charles555nc]

I've seen arsenic trioxide injections available here for $58, but is not the sort of drug you would want to try without medical advice and supervision, as it can cause serious side effects, and there are the carcinogenicity issue that I mentioned in the thread.

Thank you, I imagine if you had an anti cancer routine for a month during and after your treatment, you could cut down on the cancer risk. I am thinking edta/dmsa chelation, methylation supplements, selenium, alpha lipoic acid, anti oxidants. But Ill look into it further.

Do you know about the dosage?

 

[jaybee00]

Here is another arsenic based drug used for African sleeping sickness—it’s pretty hard core.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melarsoprol

 

[Hip]

Do you know about the dosage?

In the Dr Tarello self treatment with potassium arsenite to cure his Staphylococcus bacteremia ME/CFS, he used an intramuscular injection of potassium arsenite 0.5% for 10 days at 1 ml every 12 hours, which I think works out to 5 mg of potassium arsenite given every 12 hours.

I am not sure how to calculate the equivalence of potassium arsenite and arsenic trioxide, but if we do this in terms of the arsenic content of these two molecules, then the following calculation can be considered:

The potassium arsenite formula is AsKO2, which contains 51.3% arsenic by weight (using a molecular mass calculator). The arsenic trioxide formula is As2O3, which contains 75.7% arsenic by weight. So 5 mg of potassium arsenite would contain the same amount of arsenic as 51.3 / 75.7 x 5 = 3.4 mg of arsenic trioxide.

So I would estimate that Tarello and his wife took the equivalent of 3.4 mg of arsenic trioxide twice daily for 12 days.


In the murine antiviral study, they used a daily dose of 1 mg of arsenic trioxide per kg of body weight, given for 7 days. To convert that to a human dose, you divide by the mouse-to-human conversion figure of 12.3 (see page 7 here). So the equivalent human dose would be 1 / 12.3 = 0.08 mg per kg body weight. Thus for an 80 kg human, that would be a dose of 80 x 0.08 = 6.4 mg of arsenic trioxide once daily for 7 days.


However, given that arsenic trioxide treatment can cause differentiation syndrome, which can be fatal if not treated, this does not sound like a drug you can use without medical supervision.


Also, remember that in the mouse study, the arsenic trioxide is used to fight an acute coxsackievirus B infection. Whereas in ME/CFS, there is a chronic infection, which takes a different form (chronic CVB infection lives inside cells on a long-term basis as a non-cytolytic infection). So whether the arsenic trioxide would be as effective for chronic CVB is another issue.

Furthermore, from experiments with interferon as an antiviral treatment for CVB ME/CFS, we know this often dramatically improves ME/CFS (enabling bedbound patients to go back to work). However, after several months to a year, these patients relapse again, because the interferon does not quite eliminate all the virus from the body, so the virus slowly returns. So the same might happen with arsenic trioxide: it might work initially, but the virus may come back after some months. Which would mean that the arsenic trioxide treatment would be a waste of time.

However, because arsenic remains within cells on a long-term basis, it's conceivable that its continued presence in the cells might have some ongoing protective antiviral effect, stopping the virus from returning. But this is just pure speculation. It's also the continued presence in cells which increases lifetime cancer risk.

 

[MonkeyMan]

Years ago, under my doctor's very close supervision, I tried arsenic trioxide as a treatment for my ME/CFS, and it did absolutely nothing. Sorry to be a wet blanket.

 

[Hip]

Years ago, under my doctor's very close supervision, I tried arsenic trioxide as a treatment for my ME/CFS, and it did absolutely nothing. Sorry to be a wet blanket.

Interesting. Do you know if you have chronic active infection with coxsackievirus B, which is the virus arsenic targets? It's only the antibody micro-neutralization tests at ARUP lab (or similar neutralization tests) which are sensitive enough to detect chronic CVB in ME/CFS.

 

[MonkeyMan]

Interesting. Do you know if you have chronic active infection with coxsackievirus B, which is the virus arsenic targets? It's only the antibody micro-neutralization tests at ARUP lab (or similar neutralization tests) which are sensitive enough to detect chronic CVB in ME/CFS.

I have no idea, sorry Hip.

 

[Hip]

I have no idea, sorry Hip.

Shame, if you had been tested for coxsackievirus B infection, then your negative result with arsenic trioxide would have some bearing on its efficacy against this virus. But without knowing the viruses that may underly your ME/CFS, the negative result unfortunately does not tell us much.

 

[Charles555nc]

much.

Getting rid of arsenic when you want, isnt hard. DMSA (you can still order from europe). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3846971/

 

[Sarah94]

Isn't arsenic a deadly poison?

 

[Charles555nc]

I tested positive for arsenic poisoning and the doctor wasnt that concerned and said it was common and asked if I had chinese food a few days before getting tested, which I had. Not saying its not deadly at huge doses.

 

[Hip]

Getting rid of arsenic when you want, isnt hard. DMSA (you can still order from europe). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3846971/

By coincidence, Cort released a new blog article yesterday about detoxification from arsenic (and one other unspecified heavy metal) as a cure for on patient's ME/CFS.

 

[Charles555nc]

Well, I am coxsackie B positive, and I am maybe maxing out my benefits with Anabuse's off label use for lyme disease. I ordered the arsenic trioxide. Im going to try a very small amount and then slowly increase. I got DMSA and other anti cancer vitamns and theres always the emergency room as the a last resort for a big problem. Im 39, trying to date and find a wife, and want every % of improvement I can get.