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Are vaccines the cause of ME/CFS?

golden

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I just couldnt give any advice either way because there are risks to varying degrees with anything.

The Vaccination Bible is supposed to be a valuable source of information. Dr.Mercola and Dr. Vernon Coleman offers insights into vaccinations which are not yet mainstream.

I personally wish I had never been vaccinated as a child.
 

Seewell

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I'm not sure if this is appropriate here or I should start a new thread (mod feel free to move, others feel free to tell me to start my own thread ; ), but this thread has reminded me that I'm going to be in the position of deciding what vaccinations my expected little one will get U.S.]

No Worries Penny.nice cat
 

Tristen

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With me/cfs, we have clusters, and we have individual cases which are obviously not infectious, and for which account for most people with this dreadful disease. Both the cluster folks and the individual cases have real me/cfs and in both the "trigger" is obviously not the "cause". To me this simply suggests we had some common predisposing agent or malfunction already there within all of us awaiting that perfect storm of circumstances (trigger(s)), to activate one of these neurommune diseases. Looking at these demographics also suggests to me that this "preexisting" condition may very be present in a large portion of the populace, yet does not manifest as disease in most (yet). So what is this common thing for which possibly the majority of the populace carry, or have been in contact with? Genetics alone surely don't add up. Is it a damaged immune system from contact with some agent long before disease onset? Is it reactivated herv's? What is it that a majority of the populace have been in contact with that may have caused this preexisting condition? There are several possibilities. In my mind, since the majority of the populace have recieved some vaccine in their life it cannot be ruled out as an original "cause" of immune damage setting the stage for disease later on with the right trigger. All just speculation at this time.

As far as vaccine as a possible "trigger".....Post vaccine onset of me/cfs is a small percentage, yet they are out there. To the best of my recollection, Dr Hyde in Canada is most well known for working with these folks. There are a few others.
 

penny

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I think one thing that might help is to look at methylation and immune system aspects thought to be associated with bad reactions. If everything is completely fine and normal and healthy, there might not be any cause to worry - since lots of people do get tons of vaccinations without any ill effects.

But if there are abnormalities, then prioritizing might be more sensible. Also most vaccines should be available without preservatives or allergens upon request, which might make all the difference.
That seems like it could be really useful in population level studies. But it seems that the current state of our understanding of what specific genetic variations mean is pretty immature. I have a few of the possibly dodgy snps related to methylation but not a lot of distinct red flags, and my responses to trying Fredd's and Rich's protocols were, um, difficult to interpret (i.e. almost no short term noticeable effects)...

Good point about allergens and preservatives.

I just couldnt give any advice either way because there are risks to varying degrees with anything.
Of course, I totally agree that everything carries risk, and everyone must make their own personal risk analysis. But to clarify, I might not have expressed this well, I'm not wanting advice : ) I'm just interested in people's opinions/thoughts/gut feelings about different vaccines (like folks were already giving on the thread). I'm not even trying to make any decisions right now I'm just starting to "pay more attention", since I really haven't had to think about this much.
 

golden

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That seems like it could be really useful in population level studies. But it seems that the current state of our understanding of what specific genetic variations mean is pretty immature. I have a few of the possibly dodgy snps related to methylation but not a lot of distinct red flags, and my responses to trying Fredd's and Rich's protocols were, um, difficult to interpret (i.e. almost no short term noticeable effects)...

Good point about allergens and preservatives.



Of course, I totally agree that everything carries risk, and everyone must make their own personal risk analysis. But to clarify, I might not have expressed this well, I'm not wanting advice : ) I'm just interested in people's opinions/thoughts/gut feelings about different vaccines (like folks were already giving on the thread). I'm not even trying to make any decisions right now I'm just starting to "pay more attention", since I really haven't had to think about this much.

That was me for not wording things right - sorry :)

I definately would not vaccinate my baby - time is running out for me so I may never have a child.
But the thing that worries me the most is how to overcome the pressure and bully tactics used by the medical profession to vaccinate.

I dont know how I would cope with that.



:)
 

Mouse girl

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Considering that this illness or group of illnesses has been around way before the use of vaccines, I would say that vaccines would not be the cause. It's such a shame that so many people are afraid of vaccines and have been scared by rumor and falsified information. I understand we are just human and easily influenced by scare tactics and rumor but I think if you saw what life was like before vaccines, you wouldn't be so afraid of them. Remember, our life spans are twice what they used to be in just the last 150 years, and that is due to science and modern medicine.
 

Shoesies

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Actually we (my daughter and I) have decided not to vaccinate my grandson. He was born in January. We informed the birthing team and pediatrician that we would not be vaccinating. You can take advantage of religious exemption which allows you to place your child in schools, travel overseas and return. They can give you a lot of grief but they cannot legally stop you. There are religious exemption forms. My daughter keeps hers with her wherever she and the baby go. She plans to do so until he moves out of the home.
 

penny

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Considering that this illness or group of illnesses has been around way before the use of vaccines, I would say that vaccines would not be the cause. It's such a shame that so many people are afraid of vaccines and have been scared by rumor and falsified information. I understand we are just human and easily influenced by scare tactics and rumor but I think if you saw what life was like before vaccines, you wouldn't be so afraid of them. Remember, our life spans are twice what they used to be in just the last 150 years, and that is due to science and modern medicine.
I personally agree that it seems unlikely to be the cause. Though the idea of there being an underlying problem (whether it's genetic, viral, what) which can be triggered by an immune challenge the body can't handle (which may be a vaccine for some folks, for others an illness caught 'in the wild', or whatever) makes a lot of sense. Clusters then could be explained either by outbreaks of the 'underlying problem' (if that happens to be contagious) and/or outbreaks of a something that places a particularly heavy immune challenge.

Personally I didn't have any vaccines within several years (at least) of becoming ill, and have generally not reacted poorly to vaccines (excepting getting a short but unpleasant flu like illnes from a tyhpoid vaccination that I probably didn't handle/refrigerate properly - so quite likely my own darn fault). Though I've never had a flu shot, but that always seems different somehow.

As far as the next generation, I suspect I'll have the wee one get all the things that were standard in the 70's without much second thought (for me the risk for most of those illnesses outweighs the risk of bad effects from vaccinations), and then spend my brain power on researching the 'new' ones. I do feel lucky that my doc (who will also be our pediatrician) seems to be someone who questions and decides for himself, rather than just towing a party line. So I trust him to give me some good advice and take into account the fact that I have indeterminate immune issues which may be passed on to the wee bairn. Ah, decisions, decisions.
 

golden

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Actually we (my daughter and I) have decided not to vaccinate my grandson. He was born in January. We informed the birthing team and pediatrician that we would not be vaccinating. You can take advantage of religious exemption which allows you to place your child in schools, travel overseas and return. They can give you a lot of grief but they cannot legally stop you. There are religious exemption forms. My daughter keeps hers with her wherever she and the baby go. She plans to do so until he moves out of the home.

I was reading about people in America doing this. Is it the 8th day advent religion - i have forgotten :)

I was reading today a lot of doctors especially in France and Italy wont vaccinate their children. I do start paying attention to Doctors who start whistle blowing and speaking out when they initially have nothing to gain other than a whole heap of trouble. And there are plenty of Doctors speaking out in various ways about vaccinations.

In my CFS book by Alison Adams she says that shockingly there is little evidence that vaccines work.

There is a great deal of evidence to show that there had been a massive decline in incidence pf many diseases we vaccinate againstbefore the vaccination programme was introduced. This can be attributed to the provision pf clear water and proper sanitation, improved nutrition and hygiene and better housing from squalid, overcrowded conditions.

There is also very few long term studies on tge safety or efficiancy of vaccinations.

The ingredients alone are enough to make me think - something which is never advertised or found on NHS websites.


I suppose i could become religious. :)
 

SilverbladeTE

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Considering that this illness or group of illnesses has been around way before the use of vaccines, I would say that vaccines would not be the cause. It's such a shame that so many people are afraid of vaccines and have been scared by rumor and falsified information. I understand we are just human and easily influenced by scare tactics and rumor but I think if you saw what life was like before vaccines, you wouldn't be so afraid of them. Remember, our life spans are twice what they used to be in just the last 150 years, and that is due to science and modern medicine.
Far as I am aware, the first reprtred "outbreak" of ME/CFS was in 1934?? Amongst Swiss soldiers...what's the bet they had just been vaccinated? ;)

We may live longer today, but 150 years ago, we didn't have the hydrogen bomb and associated world wide dispersal of cancer causing radionucleides from tests/accidents.
we have antibiotics...and sexually malformed kids because of chemicals in the water.
And so on and so forth. Ups and downs.

There was no "Golden Age", I am aware of that, I am really glad we have modern painkillers and central heating and...you get the idea ;)
But I also know we've done terrible damage, monstrously STUPID things *points out window and back in time, to the steelworks close to his house that blanketted him and everyone else in poisons for decades*

when power and money are involved, lies and corruption are absolutely de rigeur, and sometimes even murder, though rarely directly and "honest" murder, more like, "collateral damage" is a perfectly acceptable "issue" in the lust for profit!

Vaccine industry is worth about $50 billion a year, our governments agreed to idemnify the vaccine corporations against damages...a PERFECT storm of potential greed, and head in sand power structures refusing to admit the shark is biting folks' asses: The Jaws Sydnrome ;)

vaccines have potential huge benefits AND disastrous consequences
going on track record, I wouldn't trust our governments and Big Business further than I can pee upwind in a hurricane ;)

still up to folk to decide for their kids, it is NOT an easy choice.
vaccines do potentially have the ability to eradicate certian viral diseases.
prevention is better than cure

but...so much lies, vested interests....hence as I said, there should be complete divorcement of research from potential abuse and coercion except ethics and legality
 

golden

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http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/12/27/legal-vaccine-exemptions.aspx

So i dont have to find a religion that says no to vaccines!

But I already do have a deep spiritual conviction to stay away from vaccinations.

It terrifies me the idea of the medical profession forcing a medical procedure onto my baby.

Probably could do with some C.B.T. for that.

I cant find Uk legislation but one Doctor said people told him that for merely questioning the vaccination regime - the Mother was threatened with social services.

That sounds horrendous - it offends my braveheart!

:)
 

HowToEscape?

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I have ME/CF and wonder if vaccines may be doing us a great deal of good. If over a critical number portion of a population typically about 90% is vaccinated for a particular disease, it dies out within that population. Thus we're protected from dealing with many infections which would either
i) be injurious is themselves, such as polio
or
ii) further confuse and hyper-activate our immune systems.

It could be that vaccines are, in addition to whatever other risks and benefits they pose, preventing many cases of ME/CF.

For myself, I check with the one of the few ME/CF specialists regarding each vaccine. He seems to recommend them for his differently for different patients as we don't all react the the same. I always get the flu shot and it's saved me a great deal of misery and possible several crashes.
 

taniaaust1

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an here's a thought:
more research recently, supports the findings that male sterility in the last 50 years has been increasing at about 1% per year...think about it. Now, while such maybe due to oestregen like chemicals in water etc....it coudl also be linked to vaccines...or plastics (phthalates etc)...or the ysnergistic combination of all the greedy stupid shit we've done
we simply don't know
if this continues the Human Race will be come *extinct*
I was reading about that years ago and what I find interesting is that most people dont know that... one has to wonder if governments are purposely keeping secret over the dramatically falling male fertility rates? One day all our babes will have to be test tube babes. Maybe that would really suit governments or population control and who can have babies and how many. (falling fertility stops the situation ending up like China where they had to have the one baby policy).
 

Wayne

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I am not an "anti-vaxxer". But I am against the current vaccination culture that has evolved around for-profit entities. It's clear vaccinations can be effective, but I'm aghast as to why has so little has been done to improve vaccination safety. I'm not some kind of wild-eyed socialist, but if ever there was something that should be under the control of government, and taken out of the hands of private industry, vaccinations is it.

These private vaccination companies all like to trumpet how safe vaccines are, but when adverse reactions are reported, they are almost always summarily dismissed as "no scientific proof this was caused by vaccines". This is even more so the case when adverse reactions show up years later. And then they do everything in their power to prevent ongoing research to identify reasons some people have reactions that they won't admit to in the first place.

Some of my feelings are from a bad reaction to a childhood vaccine, and how I believe it likely weakened my immune system at a very young age, possibly setting the stage for my developing ME/CFS. And then there's the heartbreaking stories of the many young women who have died and developed devastating neurological damage from the Gardasil vaccinations for HPV. Sadly, the purported benefits from Gardasil never added up to begin with, without even factoring in the enormous suffering that has resulted from their use.

Hmmm, I think I just want on a rant. -- Funny how those rants just kind of sneak up on me sometimes. :angel:
 

golden

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I am a "pro-natural-immune- system " supporter it seems.

I no longer believe Vaccinations have helped me in the slightest.

Here is an article of ingredients. Its interesting to note that the NHS does not have an ingredients list on its website.

I think vaccinations may very well be the underlying cause of M.E.
 

Hip

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HERE ARE SOME HAUNTING IMAGES of the iron lung machines that children had to be enclosed in for up to a week, because they caught the poliovirus, and it paralyzed the nerves to their muscles that allowed them to breathe.

poliomultiironlungs.jpg


Without the mechanical ventilation of these huge iron lung machines, these children would have died of asphyxiation. In most cases, the nerves to the muscles would regrow after a week, and breathing could then recommence. But sometimes the nerves would never regrow, and then a child would have to remain in an iron lung machine for decades, otherwise they would die.

polio-IronLungExterior.jpg


Here is a story of a man that was permanently paralyzed by poliovirus, and has been kept alive with mechanical ventilation all his life.

HERE IS A PICTURE OF A GROUP OF POLIOVIRUS CRIPPLED CHILDREN.

polio-victims.jpg


Poliovirus infection can partially or fully paralyze the limbs of young children. Polio vaccination programs have pretty much eradicated polio in first world countries, but inadequate or incomplete vaccination programs in developing countries result in many cases of crippled children. It is only the continued use of poliovirus vaccination that prevents us from seeing these scenes once again.