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Are the oil-based supplements clogging our mitochondria?

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,077
After reading a blog post from @howirecovered explaining how fish oil is detrimental to the mitochondria, it got me thinking if perhaps all the oil-based supplements wouldn't be accumulating and "suffocating" our mitochondria.

The excess of oil-based supplements takes time to be flushed from the body. So I am doing an experiment and will stop the fish oil and the vitamin D and take the vitamin E only 1x or 2x a week. Right now I am not taking others like leicithin, choline, serine, CoQ10.

izzy
 

rwac

Senior Member
Messages
172
@adreno Not omega-3's though, supplements from flax or fish are usually the main source there.

@Gondwanaland Just make sure the oil in supplements is either olive oil or MCT oil, those should be all right, especially in tiny amounts.

Vitamin E is usually mixed with vegetable oil, that's really annoying, but you can get it without if you try.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,770
After reading a blog post from @howirecovered explaining how fish oil is detrimental to the mitochondria, it got me thinking if perhaps all the oil-based supplements wouldn't be accumulating and "suffocating" our mitochondria.

That blog post refers to this study about the effects of acrolein, a product of lipid peroxidation of oils, has on mitochondria. The authors state that glutathione and N-acetylcysteine prevented the bad effects that acrolein has on mitochondria.

You can also take the antioxidant astaxanthin with your fish oil. This helps prevent lipid peroxidation of oils in the first place:

Effects of astaxanthin supplementation on lipid peroxidation
 

adreno

PR activist
Messages
4,841
I can find no evidence that fish oil is "detrimental to mitochondria". I can however find evidence to the contrary:

Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2012 Mar;15(2):122-6. doi: 10.1097/MCO.0b013e32834fdaf7.
Update on lipids and mitochondrial function: impact of dietary n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids.
Stanley WC1, Khairallah RJ, Dabkowski ER.
Author information

Abstract
PURPOSE OF REVIEW:
Recent evidence has linked n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) supplementation with dramatic alterations of mitochondrial phospholipid membranes and favorable changes in mitochondrial function. In the present review, we examine the novel effects of n-3 PUFA on mitochondria, with an emphasis on cardiac mitochondrial phospholipids.

RECENT FINDINGS:
There is growing evidence that dietary n-3 PUFA, particularly docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), has profound effects on mitochondrial membrane phospholipid composition and mitochondrial function. Supplementation with n-3 PUFA increases membrane phospholipid DHA and depletes arachidonic acid, and can increase cardiolipin, a tetra-acyl phospholipid that is unique to mitochondrial and essential for optimal mitochondrial function. Recent studies show that supplementation with DHA decreases propensity for cardiac mitochondria to undergo permeability transition, a catastrophic event often leading to cell death. This finding provides a potential mechanism for the cardioprotective effect of DHA. Interestingly, other n-3 PUFAs that modify membrane composition to a lesser extent have substantially less of an effect on mitochondria and do not appear to directly protect the heart.

SUMMARY:
Current data support a role for n-3 PUFA supplementation, particularly DHA, on mitochondria that are strongly associated with changes in mitochondrial phospholipid composition.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22248591
 
Last edited:

liverock

Senior Member
Messages
748
Location
UK
The Japanese probably have the highest consumption of fish in the world and 1/3rd of the heart disease. There are 5,000 mitochondria in each heart cell which is 25 times more thany other muscle in the body. If fish oil was so damaging to mitochondria the Japanese would have perished as a nation long ago.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,770
It does say in this paper that:
Oxidation of trial oils may be responsible for the conflicting omega-3 trial literature, including the prevention of cardiovascular disease. The oxidative state of an oil can be simply determined by the peroxide value and anisidine value assays. We recommend that all clinical trials investigating omega-3 harms or benefits report the results of these assays; this will enable better understanding of the benefits and harms of omega-3 and the clinical importance of oxidized supplements.

I guess this means it would be a good idea to use fresh essential fatty acid supplements.

There's also evidence for increased oxidative stress in ME/CFS, so presumably that could oxidize your omega 3 supplement a bit.

This is one reason why krill oil is recommended in ME/CFS as a source of omega 3s, because krill oil contains astaxanthin which helps prevent lipid peroxidation. Astaxanthin is also anti-inflammatory.

Why Krill Oil May Be a Better Choice Than Fish Oil
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,077
Thanks everyone for the great replies.

The vitamin E is an important supplement to me. I started taking it because I am +/- for Factor V Leiden and had a DVT in 2011. I do not take a blood thinner anymore, but since I took it I got a vascular (?) pain in the shoulders which prevents me from sleeping on the side if I don't take the Gamma E. It comes in rice oil. I also have a dry vit E (succinate) that I take 1x/week instead of the Gamma E.

I tried to decrease my vit E intake (took every other day for a couple of weeks) and the shoulder pain came back.

Unfortunately I do not tolerate vit C on a daily basis, and I read that it is desirable to have vit C on board when taking vit E.

My vit D is in MCT oil and I take only one drop 3x/week (= 500 IU + 100mcg of K2). My blood level is 41 right now.

My cat does the quality control of my Omega 3 supps :cat:

I do have astaxanthin at home and I was taking it only 1x/week. I am not sure about the iodine content of fish oils and astaxanthin. I am trying to avoid iodine right now to see if my anti thyroglobulin antibodies will keep decreasing as I increase thyroid support.

It is really hard to pinpoint what goes wrong when taking many supplements and also hard to tell if the ones that I take for such long time (10 months) could be backfiring at some point.

izzy
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,077
Even Montgomery Burns said last week on The Simpsons that "Now they are saying that omega 3 pills are bad for you"
mr-burns.gif
:p:rofl:
 

CFS_for_19_years

Hoarder of biscuits
Messages
2,396
Location
USA
@adreno

Vitamin E is usually mixed with vegetable oil, that's really annoying, but you can get it without if you try.

Vitamin E is mixed with vegetable oil to keep it from oxidizing and going rancid. Rancid oil may be harmful to your health. I open Vitamin E capsules and put them in my oils so that they won't go rancid.

http://www.healwithfood.org/bad-for-you/rancid-oil.php#ixzz3IkHltYDc
a 2002 study published in the journal Anticancer Research reported that rancid oils not only appear to be involved in tumor promotion but also in tumor initiation. This study was carried out on mice, and rancid corn oil was used as the source of spoiled fatty acids.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/459786-can-you-get-sick-from-eating-rancid-oil/
Rancid oil does contain free radicals that might increase your risk of developing diseases such as cancer or heart disease down the road.
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
The vitamin E is an important supplement to me.

I open Vitamin E capsules and put them in my oils so that they won't go rancid.

@Gondwanaland @CFS_for_19_years or anyone else taking Vit E- I was wondering what you take it for and at what dose per day? My husband read a study that Vit E can help with angina and cardiac symptoms and that it is generally a good supplement to take. I have never taken it before and wanted to get some info from those who take it regularly. I want to hear good or bad and not invested in it, just curious!
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,077
@Gingergrrl
There is a good description of vitamin E properties at the Linus Pauling Institute page.
alpha-tocopherol has been shown to inhibit platelet aggregation and to enhance vasodilation
I take it b/c I am +/- for Factor V Leiden. I had a DVT and took a blood thinner for 1.5 years. Additionally, I noticed I keeps my good cholesterol high (between 90 and 100) and my drs. satisfied.

I take the NOW Gamma E for almost one year now as recommended by Freddd. I don't like its dark gel cap which make my urine smell terrible (I suspect the gelatine degrades my B1). Recently I started taking vit E succinate (as per Yasko) 1x or 2x a week in place of the Gamma E, but haven't noticed anything different.

Vitamin K2 is very important in my case as well though. Vit E and K are antagonists. Vit E inhibits K's activity (esp. re platelet aggregation, which is K1 function). K2's major function is to avoid soft tissue calcification (a known side effect from blood thinners). So I am looking into balancing D-E-K.

About angina, I know nothing about it, but have been reading a lot about magnesium, and I've come accross many references how magnesium prevents angina.

Further studies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3170960
http://content.onlinejacc.org/article.aspx?articleid=1121366
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/79/3/597.full.pdf
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
Thanks and I decided against the Vit E for now. Was just researching different things and trying to understand them all better.