Anyone treating oxalates /on a low oxalate diet?

[Hoosierfans]

Looking to connect with folks who are addressing oxalates / on a low oxalate diet.

I belong to a low oxalate FB group, but most folks there are on it for kidney stones, autism and a few other issues....not necessarily things like CFS, mast cell etc.

Thanks all!

 

[drmullin30]

Hi @Hoosierfans, I've been doing the low oxalate diet for about four months. It's been a crazy roller coaster ride. I've had all of the symptoms of oxalate dumping and I have seen some dramatic periods of improvement. Online research says this could take up to a year! I hope not, some of the dumping symptoms are somewhat incapacitating.

 

[triffid113]

I never heard of this till today and got in to post this, which I found under yahoo groips:

Group Description
Welcome to the premier Internet site for learning how to lower body levels of oxalate.

Oxalate is a recognized anti-nutrient and toxin in food that can store in the body. Our bodies may also make oxalate internally when we are vitamin deficient or in oxidative stress.

Since 2005, thousands of people from around the world have corresponded here with oxalate researcher Susan Owens and discovered that oxalate is not just about kidney disease and causing stones.

By reducing oxalate levels through diet (LOD) and other means, listmates have found improvements in chronic pain and inflammation, in digestive problems, and in various skin problems.

Many listmates have found reducing oxalate helps conditions improve like autism, anxiety and depression, thyroid problems, fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue, vulvodynia, mitochondrial dysfunction, interstitial cystitis, lichen planus, developmental delays, growth, and even autoimmune diseases like celiac sprue. Listmates have described improved symptoms even in some clearly genetic diseases.

Our group discusses how to help the body more gently detoxify from oxalate.

 

[Lolo]

I have just come across this and I am going to give it a go.
While reading up about recent info on Pyroluria which I tested positive for 10 years ago I came across this problem with Oxalates.
Recently I ran out of cacao powder and noticed a big reduction in pain. And I have been sure for ages there was something else that creates symptoms because of the inconsistencies.
I have been trying to join the Low Oxalates FB group but can’t get past the submit button. Is anyone able to add me?

 

[pattismith]

just a stop in nuts intake fixed my oxalate problem resolved my vaginal burn!

 

[CedarHome]

Looking to connect with folks who are addressing oxalates / on a low oxalate diet.

I belong to a low oxalate FB group, but most folks there are on it for kidney stones, autism and a few other issues....not necessarily things like CFS, mast cell etc.

Thanks all!

Yes I have just joined your club (or actually maybe I did years ago but only found out about it now.) I'm trying the fb group also.

I've very much in the gathering info phase.

The big aha for me so far is that maybe this (genetic variants mean I have difficulty making the enzyme that breaks oxalates down) is why I've had lifelong low blood sugar (demineralization) AND why I want water all the time and have to pee all the time. (yet am not diabetic.)

I inadvertently did a big dump last summer when I started autoimmune protocol and cut out nuts and nightshades.

Mentally I'm kind of pissy. I mean, I already adapted to AIP and I thought THAT was kind of ridiculous in the "cooking your own everything can't ever get takeout or eat outside your home" category. Low oxalate eating seems even worse unless you get Meat Meat Lettuce.

I'm starting the slow transition now, removing 1 or 2 foods/week. Yay.

 

[Booble]

Since I've admitted to drinking a cup or two of cocoa powder a day I clearly am not on a low oxolate diet.

 

[CedarHome]

Since I've admitted to drinking a cup or two of cocoa powder a day I clearly am not on a low oxolate diet.

Yes that is my preferred version of the low ox route also

 

[CedarHome]

Also my NP just said WAIT don't go low ox yet we want to get the baseline testing done at Regular Ox levels!

I am ordered to eat more chocolate.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I am ordered to eat more chocolate.

Finally !!! A Dr who knows what's important ....

 

[CedarHome]

I just want to say how much I love Phoenix Rising. The peer support group for low oxalates is on fb.... the moderators tell you don't ask questions, there's only 4 of us and 33,000 of you, and anyway somebody probably already asked your question. I so appreciate the folks who set this site up, this is much much better.

 

[uglevod]

Yes, I'am doing this stuff (zero2low oxalates diet). Oxalates are immunomodulators and instant withdrawal often leads to system wide inflammation (so called "detox") and an urge to consume other suppressants.

 

[CristianSerious]

Hi,

Any supplement to help with the diet ?

Kind regards,
Nasaud

 

[marcjf]

Hi,

Any supplement to help with the diet ?

Kind regards,
Nasaud

Also following this question.
I heard you can use things like Calcium Citrate to help extracting oxalate from your tissues.

And there is certain bacteria you can ingest that helps it break down oxalates on your gut. I would love to hear from people that. When you take one of those gut biome tests, they actually measure how good your oxalate metabolism pathways. Apparently mine is terrible, but I do not know how accurate those tests are.

But I never actually treated it, and I would love more about people that treated it.

 

[drmullin30]

Any supplement to help with the diet ?

I have been on a low oxalate program for a year and have learned a lot and the benefits are amazing.

First and foremost, citrate minerals and lemon juice are crucial to eliminate oxalates. You can use calcium, potassium, zinc and magnesium citrate.

I also use Chanca Piedra to help with oxalate elimination and kidney stone relief.

I also started supplementing vitamin K as this may be important for preventing endogenous oxalate production and kidney stones and people with oxalate problems may be deficient due to gut dysbiosis. From this article https://alobar.livejournal.com/2087807.html:

"We don't really know if oxalate impairs the ability of our microbes to make Vitamin K2, Our flora, not our food, provides vitamin K2, and that comprises 80-95% of the liver vitamin K supply. Also, each molecule of vitamin K is recycled several thousand times before it is degraded. (Vermeer, 1990) That means that anything that might impair that recycling process would have far more effect on vitamin K sufficiency than any difference in diet or in how much of the vitamin is being made by our flora. What recycles vitamin K? Thiols. These are the very molecules that may be impaired in a high oxalate environment because high oxalate levels oxidize thiols, rendering them useless for use by reductases. "

and from this article https://men-elite.com/2017/08/28/vitamin-k2-pro-testosterone-anti-estrogen-joint-repair/:

"Furthermore, gamma-glutamyl carboxylase, a liver enzyme that metabolizes oxalate, is catalyzed by vitamin K. (3) A deficiency in vitamin K can lead to impaired oxalate metabolism and thus lead to kidney stone formation."

Biotin and B6 are also important per this article and I supplement a lot of both. This article and website are a great resource https://sallyknorton.com/oxalate-science/oxalate-basics/:

May deplete the B-vitamins, B6 and biotin

1. Uses up vitamin B6, possibly initiating a vicious cycle. B6 deficiency increases internal production of oxalate, increases oxalate load, further depleting B6, and so on.
2. Can alter biotin metabolism, depleting biotin

Also sulfur in the form of sulfates or MSM is important as well.

This excellent article outlines the supplements that may be necessary: https://mthfrsupport.com/2018/03/understanding-sulfation-and-oxalate/

Hope this helps.

 

[acrosstheveil]

Also following this question.
I heard you can use things like Calcium Citrate to help extracting oxalate from your tissues.

And there is certain bacteria you can ingest that helps it break down oxalates on your gut. I would love to hear from people that. When you take one of those gut biome tests, they actually measure how good your oxalate metabolism pathways. Apparently mine is terrible, but I do not know how accurate those tests are.

But I never actually treated it, and I would love more about people that treated it.

what dosage of calcium citrate is used to help detox oxalates? having some pretty bad issues right now including hemorrhoids from oxalates

 

[Wishful]

My diet has been low in oxalates for lengthy periods. Never noticed any benefits from that, or problems from oxalates.

 

[datadragon]

For oxalates - The liver enzyme AGT is responsible for converting glyoxylate, the precursor molecule to oxalates, into the much-needed amino acid glycine. AGT requires Vitamin B6 to function.
Thus the faster the AGT enzyme is functioning, the more rapidly our liver can convert glyoxylate into glycine, preventing the production of oxalates. And since AGT requires B6, we can see how a bit more active P5P B6 levels may be needed to increase the speed and function of AGT leading to fewer oxalate molecules being formed. high oxalates cause our body to lose Vitamin B6 as well as sulfate. https://www.beyondmthfr.com/side-high-oxalates-problems-sulfate-b6-gut-methylation/

Low vitamin B6 increases urine oxalate/kidney stone risk. hyperoxaluria has been successfully reduced with vitamin B6 (Murthy 1982; Nath 1990; Kim 2014; Mitwalli 1988; Massey 2003). Kidney stone risk was 34% lower in women who consumed the most vitamin B6 per day from diet/supplements compared with those who consumed the least in a 14-year study in 85 557 women, (Curhan 1999). B6 requires zinc, magnesium, and vitamin B2 to convert to the active P5P form. Blood levels may show high from non conversion, if so maybe look into a low dose of active P5P and those nutrients to convert any excess B6 that is not converting to P5P. Also, Supplementation with high concentrations of the pyridoxine form of Vitamin B6 competitively inhibits the active Pyridoxal 5' phosphate (P5P) form which actually leads to decreased vitamin B6 function rather than enhancing it https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0887233317301959?via=ihub

Oxalates can be tested with organic acids test. https://mosaicdx.com/test/organic-acids-test/

Foods especially high in oxalates are often foods thought to be otherwise healthy, including spinach, beets, chocolate, peanuts, wheat bran, tea, cashews, pecans, almonds, berries, and many others. People now frequently consume “green smoothies” in an effort to eat “clean” and get healthy, however, they may actually be sabotaging their health. The most common components of green smoothies are spinach, kale, Swiss chard, and arugula, all of which are loaded with oxalates. These smoothies also often contain berries or almonds, which have high amounts of oxalates as well. Oxalates are not found in meat or fish at significant concentrations. Daily adult oxalate intake is usually 80-120 mg/d. A single green smoothie with two cups of spinach contains about 1,500 mg of oxalate, a potentially lethal dose. Most likely this is due to being under inflammation and therefore having low zinc levels impacting B6. A low oxalate diet until inflammation is resolved may therefore help.

Cecal propionate and butyrate were significantly reduced in Low Vitamin B6 rats irrespective of sex. Host vitamin B6 deficiency but not excess significantly alters gut microbial composition and its metabolites. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7693528/

David

 

[brenda]

I have been looking into this once more after 9 months or so of unbearable bladder problems. I have no diagnosis (don't see doctors) but it feels like interstitial cystitis and I have tried various things to ease it.

I have cut out the high oxylates and use calcium citrate with meals plus potassium and magnesium citrate at other times. However, to commit to the program has been delayed since I have come across 'No Grain No Pain' by Dr Peter Osborne.

In it he says that people with gluten intolerance often do not know it and giving up gluten for a trial might not show it as, they will probably also react to other grains which have other kinds of gluten. I have been gluten free, supposedly for 10 years or so but he says that is not properly gluten free.

So I am wondering whether this is the basic cause of oxalate problems, in that the intolerance to all grains is causing leaky gut which allows too much oxalate in. I don't want to spend the rest of my years avoiding oxalates v healing my leaky gut by quitting grains and late being able to tolerate some now and again. I would rather get to the root of the problem even though going grain free sounds very hard.

I have been listening to one oxalate guru who says she still has the problem after 10 years reducing oxalate.

 

[almost]

Looking to connect with folks who are addressing oxalates / on a low oxalate diet.

I've been doing low (or at least reduced) oxalate for about 6 months. It was one of the first things I did when I changed my diet. The book Toxic Superfoods was a great resource for this. Her documentation could have been better, but has a lot of good data in it. She also includes a good discussion on supplementation.

I addressed mine by getting rid of three major players in my diet: spinach, almonds and dark chocolate. Outside of this I didn't have a lot of oxalate sinners. I also began having a glass of milk before my main meal to get some calcium in the gut. For a couple years I had juice of one lemon or lime twice a day, with some mag citrate added. This is my variation of the University of WI/Madison protocol for patients with a history of kidney stones. I have that history.

I found an interesting paper that showed there are more bacteria than Oxalobacter than can metabolize oxalates, including some Lactobacteria that perform just as well. I will see if I can dig that out of my files.

Overall, I think it has reduced the load on my kidneys, but really hasn't impacted CFS much that I can tell. I aim to keep oxalates low because I just don't need that added burden.