Anyone here have tooth problems?

David Jackson

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Was reading this book about how tooth decay is not a result of sugar on the teeth that gets eaten by bacteria, which then causes acid which eats into the tooth enamel… rather it is a result of the glands in our brain and jaw not getting the proper stimulus to pump the minerals required to keep our teeth strong into them.

Given how CFS wrecks your hypothalamus and other glandular regulation, etc, I thought this may have a bearing on why my teeth ain’t doing all that well.

Thought I’d share the thought here, see the attached photo from the book, sorry it it’s not so clear.
 

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brenda

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I use a mixture of purified water, bicarbonate of soda, and tri sodium phosphate (6 Tbl to 2 teasp) to rinse my teeth after brushing with home made tooth powder. It is the phosphorous that strengthens enamel. I found the recipe on a Youtube vid.

It works. My small cavities faded, my teeth were whiter and I never need to see a dentist.
 
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Sing

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Some of us have Sjogrens Syndrome, which causes a dry mouth due to reduced salivation. This leads to more frequent plaque buildup. Saliva is protective, which I didn’t use to know. Once my mouth became drier, I couldn’t seem to brush often enough to keep the plaque, etc. in check. I benefit from drinking water a lot, eating a crisp apple or other crisp raw fruit or vegetable, and....when no one is looking, chew sugarless gum, which stimulates saliva and puts my mouth into the “Wash” cycle.
 
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David Jackson

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and....when no one is looking, chew sugarless gum
BUSTED!

But, yeah, I get what you mean... the mouth is meant to have saliva in it, for sure.

I just thought it was interesting reading that there's a whole thing going on whereby our teeth are remineralized from the inside... formerly, I don't know, I just thought they were getting eaten from the outside if you ate wrong...
 

taniaaust1

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I know something goes wrong with my teeth mineralization on rare occassions. As my teeth have gone strange and turned crumbly at times (little bits of tooth then start to come off and they feel at this time like chalky).

Dentist says my tooth enemal is thin, it was damaged by drinking sports drinks re the POTS. My mouth can be overly dry due to POTS. The dentist one time commented on this, my lips and stuff was sticking to him due to dryness as he was trying to work on a tooth. He also said I would be prone to more tooth decay due to the dryness.

My latest teeth issue is teeth with hairline cracks. I assume that may of happened due to stress.
 

David Jackson

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My latest teeth issue is teeth with hairline cracks. I assume that may of happened due to stress.
The book I was reading was saying the really fast drills the dentists use will shatter the microscopic structure of the insides of the teeth, where all the minerals are meant to flow through. This messes up those teeth and their ability to remineralize.

Makes me wonder if it's the same for biting/grinding your teeth at night, while you sleep, which someone told me I did.
 

David Jackson

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It is the phosphate that strengthens enamel.
Yes, this is what the book was saying too. Didn't see your post when I looked before. I like that idea. I use homemade toothpaste myself. Will look into the tri sodium phosphate mouthwash.
 

lafarfelue

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it was damaged by drinking sports drinks re the POTS
This is what's been happening to my teeth.. the acids are no good at the levels I need the electrolytes at. :cry:

It's very frustrating because aside from any direct issues in the mouth, poor tooth, gum and jaw bone health is linked to poor heart health! And heart disease already runs in my family :thumbdown:

Thanks for posting about this @David Jackson . I had seen other posts or info about rebuilding teeth, but hadn't really had the energy to think about it til recently. Gonna try to absorb the book info you posted :)

A bit of help please; I've tried googling but to little avail... where can one purchase trisodium phosphate? I have other ingredients for homemade toothpaste already.
 

Wonkmonk

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I use a toothpaste that is only available with prescription which has a very high fluoride content, in Germany it's called Duraphat. The manufacturer is Colgate, so I think it should be available in the US and possibly worldwide.

It has 5000 ppm of fluoride. Normal toothpaste in Germany has only 1000-1400 ppm.

The fluoride replaces calcium in the tooth and thereby hardens it and makes it much (several fold) more resistant against acid and tooth erosion.

It's important not to swallow it and rinse the mouth carefully after use, because otherwise too much fluoride might be taken up systemically.

I never had tooth decay including during my 10 years with ME. But I do have gum disease which I think is related to the ME because I never had it before and it developed only in the last two years when the disease got severe (despite a strong emphasis on dental hygiene).
 
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A bit of help please; I've tried googling but to little avail... where can one purchase trisodium phosphate?
Paint store, it's used to prep surfaces for painting. Probably should inquire as to whether it is food grade or not. :D

I had great difficulty finding it here in Japan, I insist on using it for bathroom painting. What I got is pharmaceutical grade. :_
 

Hip

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My understanding is that tooth enamel remineralization is facilitated by the minerals in the salvia (calcium, phosphate and hydroxyl ions), rather than enamel being built from within via tooth lymph channels. Wikipedia explains it here. And I wrote a post on it here.

According to this article, when a new tooth is being created from scratch inside the gums, then a type of cell called an ameloblast secretes the proteins that help form enamel. But once the forming tooth enamel is complete and the tooth has emerged, the ameloblasts die off.

At that point I believe its just your saliva that maintains and repairs the enamel.
 

David Jackson

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That was what I understood it to be as well, @Hip.

And I'm not saying that's wrong, but as the book explains, that's kinda the mainstream theory... the kind you'd find on Wikipedia. It seems not everyone agrees with that, and this other, less conventionally popular theory is out there too.

I don't know which is the more correct; perhaps even both. I just found it interesting, and though I'd share it here.
 

Hip

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It seems not everyone agrees with that, and this other, less conventionally popular theory is out there too.
I guess it would take a bit of background reading to get to the bottom of it.


As an aside, I observed that my own gum health suddenly declined very soon after catching the virus that triggered my ME/CFS (which was most likely coxsackievirus B4).

This virus caused a sudden gum line recession (periodontitis) within a few months. This made me realize that there is more to dental health than just regular brushing and avoiding too much sugar.
 

Wonkmonk

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As an aside, I observed that my own gum health suddenly declined very soon after catching the virus that triggered my ME/CFS (which was most likely coxsackievirus B4).

This virus caused a sudden gum line recession (periodontitis) within a few months. This made me realize that there is more to dental health than just regular brushing and avoiding too much sugar.
It happened to me, too, but at a later stage when the disease had progressed (mine progressed very slowly over 10 years).

I found that herpes virus is implicated in gum disease by many studies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4774289/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26252400

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10791704

"Alteration between latent and active herpesvirus infection in the periodontium might lead to transient local immunosuppression and explain in part the episodic progressive nature of human periodontitis. Tissue tropism of herpesvirus infections might help explain the localized pattern of tissue destruction in periodontitis. Absence of herpesvirus infection or viral reactivation might explain why some individuals carry periodontopathic bacteria while still maintaining periodontal health."

I would suspect that any latent chronic virus could cause this problem, so it might also happen with enterovirus.
 

Hip

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And fluoride from toothpaste/mouth wash.
Yes, I detail in my post that the enamel coating of your teeth can be manufactured in three different ways, resulting in three forms of enamel: hydroxylapatite, fluorapatite and chlorapatite. When fluoride is present it results in fluorapatite enamel, which is more acid resistant.

Fluoride is naturally present in the water in some regions, and its also added to toothpaste/mouth wash, and added to drinking water in some countries/regions; but in areas of the world where the water naturally has very high levels of fluoride, such as regions of China, you find that people from those regions have an average IQ which is 7 points lower.
 
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