Anybody use oral Hyalauronic Acid ?

maple

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Hyaluronic acid is found in the interstitial space in most tissue and in joints and rooster comb. I suggest boiling up some joints- chicken wings or knuckles- and making soup.
 
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Be cautious if you have any collagen or connective tissue disorder .

The soup suggestion is a good one . You can put ox tail and chicken feet in a large pot with a lot of water and simmer they until water is reduced to less than half . It should be a gelatin when cold . That will give you collagen .
 

prioris

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it cured my herniated disc at L4-L5
it cures back problems in general
it regenerates the synovial fluid
it regenerated my gums
it is one component that helps regenerate veins and arteries
it helps regenerate connective tissue in entire body
i use biocell hyaluronic acid which also has collagen and chondroitin
many people take it for the skin and anti-aging
as one ages, synovial fluid becomes sludgy
i'd also suggest almost any brand of liposomal vitamin c once a day


ha helps body retain water
must be taken on empty stomach (it can't be mixed with other proteins) with enough water ( which activates it)

The human body manufactures HA too. Without it, the body tissue would fall apart.

HA is easily absorbed by body. Whatever type collagen e.g. type 2 digested gets broken down and reassembled into whatever type of collagen (type 1, 2, 3 etc ) the body needs.
 

Hip

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Has anyone here used Hyalaronic Acid
There is a difference between high molecular weight hyaluronic acid and low molecular weight hyaluronic acid, this paper says high MW is anti-inflammatory regarding macrophage activation, whereas low MW is pro-inflammatory. Which is more appropriate for ME/CFS is not clear.

Only small amounts of oral high MW hyaluronic acid are actually absorbed, according to this study. The rest is broken down by stomach acids and digestion. Low MW hyaluronic acid is well-absorbed, says this study.

High MW hyaluronic acid is found to reduce microglial activation by its effects on modulate TLR-4 (in this respect, it may have a similar action to low-dose naltrexone, which also acts via TLR-4).
 

prioris

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There is a difference between high molecular weight hyaluronic acid and low molecular weight hyaluronic acid, this paper says high MW is anti-inflammatory regarding macrophage activation, whereas low MW is pro-inflammatory. Which is more appropriate for ME/CFS is not clear.

Only small amounts of oral high MW hyaluronic acid are actually absorbed, according to this study. The rest is broken down by stomach acids and digestion. Low MW hyaluronic acid is well-absorbed, says this study.

High MW hyaluronic acid is found to reduce microglial activation by its effects on modulate TLR-4 (in this respect, it may have a similar action to low-dose naltrexone, which also acts via TLR-4).
Other studies put to rest the notion the myth that high molecular weight HA can't be absorbed well. That is flat out wrong when one looks at actual healing results. There is also enough anecdotal proof to put that myth into the grave yard on amazon reviews. For the people that sold hyaluronic acid injections, that was a good myth to have.

People have to make sure it doesn't get mixed with other protein strands when taking it because it will neutralize the positive effects. I wait half an hour before I eat anything. The other thing people can do is do is LOADING to get quicker effects. That means take higher amounts.

Taking liposomal vitamin C will help synthesis collagen from the protein we eat so it can work with the HA and help with regeneration. The other interesting thing about liposomal vitamin C is that it obsoletes topical vitamin C serum on skin. Study found just taking around 1000 mg liposomal C daily will saturate the skin within month or so. I didn't know that. It will lessen age spots too.

Very interesting info on reducing microglial activation. Probably due to degeneration of HA and collagen in brain.

I think gluten can degenerate collagen in body. NAG supplement can bind with wheat gluten to maybe help neutralize effect.

Most anybody who is chronically ill should make sure they are not deficient in HA etc because it will manifest symptoms in many parts of the body. Probably six weeks of supplementation should replenish the body.
 
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Hip

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Other studies put to rest the notion the myth that high molecular weight HA can't be absorbed well.
Would you have some links to those studies? I just this 2016 study which says high MW hyaluronic acid is "degraded to oligosaccharides by intestinal bacteria, and oligosaccharide HA is absorbed in the large intestine and is subsequently distributed throughout the tissues, including the skin."

So you are getting what they refer to as oligosaccharide hyaluronic acid, rather than hyaluronic acid.
 

prioris

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Would you have some links to those studies? I just this 2016 study which says high MW hyaluronic acid is "degraded to oligosaccharides by intestinal bacteria, and oligosaccharide HA is absorbed in the large intestine and is subsequently distributed throughout the tissues, including the skin."

So you are getting what they refer to as oligosaccharide hyaluronic acid, rather than hyaluronic acid.
studies only go so far. it's about results ... what are the anecdotal reports saying ... from what i see they are overwhelmingly favorable

it's like the studies saying GABA can't be absorbed but my own experience and other reports say otherwise ... we can put those studies in the waste basket ... somewhere they didn't account for something
 

pamojja

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study found just taking around 1000 mg liposomal C daily will saturate the skin within month or so. I didn't know that. It will lessen age spots too.
Would you be so kind and share the link to that study?

I'm very interested, since until now I only found studies comparing different levels of vitamin C from different products in plasma. For example posted here: https://www.longecity.org/forum/top...-term-systemic-health/?view=findpost&p=855510
Haven't yet found even one study which tested levels in any tissue (comparing different products).
 

prioris

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Would you be so kind and share the link to that study?

I'm very interested, since until now I only found studies comparing different levels of vitamin C from different products in plasma. For example posted here: https://www.longecity.org/forum/top...-term-systemic-health/?view=findpost&p=855510
Haven't yet found even one study which tested levels in any tissue (comparing different products).
liposomals will be highly available in plasma ...

I can't find the specific place I read it but here is this
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5579659/

3.1.2. Bioavailability and Uptake
Most tissues of the body respond to plasma availability of vitamin C and concentrations vary accordingly, with lower tissue levels being reported when plasma levels are below saturation [43,44,45,46,47]. The kinetics of uptake varies between tissues, with vitamin C levels in some organs (e.g., the brain) reaching a plateau at lower plasma vitamin C status, whereas other tissue levels (e.g., skeletal muscle) continue to increase in close association with increasing plasma supply [32,44,45,48].

Very little is known about vitamin C accumulation in the skin and there are no studies that have investigated the relationship between skin vitamin C content and nutrient intake or plasma supply. Two human studies have shown an increase in skin vitamin C content following supplementation with vitamin C, but neither contained adequate measures of plasma vitamin C levels in the participants before or after supplementation [27,49]. In one other study, vitamin C content was measured in buccal keratinocytes, as these cells are proposed to be a good model for skin keratinocytes [50]. The keratinocyte vitamin C concentration doubled upon supplementation of the participants with 3 g/day vitamin C for six weeks, a dosage that is significantly higher than the recommended daily intake and would achieve plasma saturation and likely also tissue saturation [44].

Thus it appears likely that, as with many other tissues, skin vitamin C levels respond to increases in plasma supply [27,50]. A paper by Nusgens and co-workers suggests that skin levels do not increase further once plasma saturation is reached [51]. Dietary supplementation is therefore only expected to be effective in elevating skin vitamin C in individuals who have below-saturation plasma levels prior to intervention.
 

pamojja

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the specific place I read it but here is this
Sadly, also doesn't support in any way the notion that liposomal has a higher absorbtion than regular oral in plasma.

interesting thing about liposomal vitamin C is that it obsoletes topical vitamin C serum on skin. Study found just taking around 1000 mg liposomal C daily will saturate the skin within month or so.
Liposomal according to Dr. Levy is up to 10 times as effective as oral ascorbic acid in his clinical experience. But he also makes it clear that only applies to infections, and not any of the many other health effects of vitamin C. Studies which tested equal amounts of ingested liposomal and regular oral found both produced equal plasma levels. Liposomal very likely has better uptake in cells, but since this has never been tested comparative to regular oral vitamin C, any such marketing claims are unsupported by studies.

I rather stick with regular high dose ascorbic acid which has many beneficial health effects in my experience, than spend too much on expensive liposomal, since I don't have obsolete money.

Also 'vitamin C saturation' is a myth, as the one study found in my linked to post shows.
 
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prioris

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Sadly, also doesn't support in any way the notion that liposomal has a higher absorbtion than regular oral in plasma.



Liposomal according to Dr. Levy is up to 10 times as effective as oral ascorbic acid in his clinical experience. But he also makes it clear that only applies to infections, and not any of the many other health effects of vitamin C. Studies which tested equal amounts of ingested liposomal and regular oral found both produced equal plasma levels. Liposomal very likely has better uptake in cells, but since this has never been tested comparative to regular oral vitamin C, any such marketing claims are unsupported by studies.

I rather stick with regular high dose ascorbic acid which has many beneficial health effects in my experience, than spend too much on expensive liposomal, since I don't have obsolete money.

Also 'vitamin C saturation' is a myth, as the one study found in my linked to post shows.

liposomal C is very INEXPENSIVE ... around $20 for a 90 day supply at 1400mg daily

high dose vitamin C ... it is not practical due to adverse side effects in most people ... it's why vitamin C use languished for a long time ... some people can take high doses ... just as bad, you think the average person relishes swallowing 10-20 or more capsules a day of vitamin C

high dose liposomal vitamin C is way more tolerable to boot

it is clear from just the amazon reviews that vitamin C is getting absorbed well by the skin

researchers also inferred the same from their studies ... it may not be to the degree that other researchers want but there is enough to conclude the obvious

Levy: Exactly! As you said earlier, the goal is simply NOT high plasma levels of vitamin C, as is readily achieved with intravenous vitamin C. Instead, the goal is sufficient amounts of vitamin C entering the cell and its interior components. When liposomes eventually reach the circulation, as they will when enough is taken, the thoracic duct will deliver these liposomes directly into the circulation. When this occurs, the liposome will largely disappear as they enter and/or deliver their contents into cells throughout the body.

makes it clear what he thinks happens to the liposomal vitamin C in body
 

pamojja

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C is very INEXPENSIVE ... around $20 for a 90 day supply at 1400mg daily
Last time I checked 1 gram liposomal per day was € 1,- for where I live. While the 24 g ascorbic acid powder I took in average daily for the last 10 years cost me not even 50 cents per day.

When I tried liposomal for 1 months, while also taking up to my daily bowel tolerance ordinary oral ascorbic acid (at 50g per day at that time), the only additional effect experienced from liposomal was that bowel tolerance increased to 2/3 further (about 80g of ascorbic acid a day). No addtional health benefits, other than what I was experiencing anyway from regular oral ascorbic acid.
 

pamojja

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you think the average person relishes swallowing 10-20 or more capsules a day of vitamin C
Would highly disadvise. Much too many binder and fillers from the capsules in the long run. While adding a teaspoon of pure ascrobic acid to a glass of water a few times a day poses absolutely no problem, even to an average person (as long as bowel tolerance allows - always start low and go slow with a new supplement).
 

prioris

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liposomal vitamin c $1 per gram seemed standard in past for most so was painful but there were a few that went lower in freshly made liquid ... $40 for 160 grams for 25 cents per gram sold by boardroom organics on amazon and had 4 month expiration ... if one needed large amounts and in an easy to take form, this is way to go ... new capsule brand nutrivein have emerged that brings down cost to 25 cents per gram and have well over 2 year expiration date ... this is for US market of course
 

pamojja

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Since I didn't experieced any additional benefit after a 1 month trial with many grams of liposomal (compared to regular), why on earth should I even bother? Also according to the meager available studies it is already established that 1 g liposomal isn't as effective as 20 grams regular. For infections only maybe 10 times as much, according to Levy (not my experience).

From your statement, about having to take too many pills for high dose vitamin c, it seems apparent that you didn't even tried. I hope you at least have tried the liposomal and could give a detailed account of its health benefits? Since you endorse it so much.

With high dose regular ascorbic acid I for example overcame a walking-disability (PAD), a for year's persisting skin rush, seasonal rhinitis symptoms, and since I started 10 year's ago, never had a sun-burn again. How about you?
 

prioris

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Never told you to bother, you do what you want ... I was just discussing cost of liposomal C coming down in price

liposomal C gets way more positive reviews from people than regular C ever got.
Likely due to way less adverse side effects so therapy accessible to more people.

Whatever feed back I have about liposomal C is incidental to entire discussion.
I don't have anything positive to say about regular vitamin C for myself
due to side effects. I tried higher dosages many times years ago. It will be a
long while before I can give my personal experience on liposomal C. All I know
is that the fat coated vitamin C doesn't cause virtually any side effects in me
even at high dosages.
 

pamojja

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liposomal C gets way more positive reviews from people than regular C ever got.
My experience in making online reviews is limited to 2: Once after placing a bad review for bad service I got a discount for rewritting it more positive. The second was also for a discount. With the higher profit with liposomal more positive reviews have rather to do with ecconomical reasons.

However, liposomal is really a godsend for persons with terrible low bowel tolerance, some even below 1 gram. Which I read from experiences of posters on forums - with no financial incentive.

Never told you to bother, you do what you want ... I was just discussing cost of liposomal C coming down in price
That's fine. I just had to object because you initially also claimed that skin tissue levels of vitamin C would be saturated with only 1g daily of liposomal C after about 1 month. While in reality only plasma vitamin C levels have ever been tested by comparing regular and liposomal vitamin C. Where both produce equal plasma levels.

The claim that liposomal might reach higher levels in tissues with equal doses might well be true. However, as long as nobody ever had it actually tested, that also remains a mere unsupported marketing claim. Claiming even tissue 'saturation' for something never been tested at commonly used escalating doses, borders on fraudulent to me.
 
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prioris

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virtually any level of any tissue in the human body can't be objectively measured because doubt can be cast on anything used for measurement, any method used ... I believe it was NIH who made first claim of tissue saturation of vitamin C ... i couldn't say it was fraud unless it was the intention of the researchers

On a technical level, you are correct about tissue saturation but on a practical level ... people are left to make their own assessment based on experience ... researchers are left to look make their own assessment based on the sum total of their own research ... you or me as outside observers can make assessments of the assessments ... we make assessments of anecdotal reports ... it could be justified for a researcher to infer saturation of tissue ... you may not agree with it but it is like any scientific research, something very subjective ... will there ever be an objective measure in the 21st century ... not really ... at the end of the day, each of us is the final arbiter of truth

vitamin C gets absorbed by body mainly thru the plasma, it makes sense that if plasma levels are kept high, the maximum amount of vitamin C that can be absorbed by an organ will be absorbed over time ... different organs will absorb faster than others ... so one can indirectly infer maximum amount of possible absorption hence maximum tissue saturation

collagen it is said makes up around 40% of the proteins in body. vitamin C is a catalyst for collagen production. besides vitamin C, collagen and hyaluronic acid, ... phytoceramides may be the next level that can be supplemented ... as we grow older, these may need to be replenished so just replacing collagen may not be enough ... so may be the reason why vitamin C may not be enough at some point ... so you may not have experienced anymore benefits because other deficiencies were present