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Anybody discover Magnesium?

Messages
75
Probably been covered a hundred times but if it can help someone else here's what I 've learned of late.

High intakes of Vitamin D dramatically increase need for Mg.

Stress of surgery and anesthetics deplete Mg. stores--

Almost everyone is deficient- oral intake isn't well absorbed.

According to Carolyn Dean, Md Nd, one of the best ways to restore Mg. levels is transdermal Mg. chloride, and a highly micronized oral Mg. chloride solution. Mg. is involved in hundreds of enzymes in human physiology and the need is far greater than for Calcium supplements.

When I scrolled down the list of posts, some literally screamed Mg. deficiency-- rapid heartbeat--palpitations- fatigue(many causes), but bear in mind Mg. is a big player in ATP production AND mitochondrial detoxification.

If any of you are disciples of Sherry Rogers you'll know how much she promotes Mg. and detox for more energy/less fatigue

Did I mention blood pressure issues? If not Mg. plays a role here as well as it controls vascular and large muscle tension as well as sodium transfer across membranes.

Hopefully this shines some light for someone struggling with insomnia and muscle twitches, digestive issues(Mg plays a role in production of hydrochloric acid- think nutrient absorption) and a plethora of other easily identifiable and FIXABLE problems.
 

Seven7

Seven
Messages
3,444
Location
USA
I use oil of magnesium as deodorant, I had struggled to find something that works and will not stain my clothes. So I use it for another reason but get the advantages of it.
 

dannybex

Senior Member
Messages
3,555
Location
Seattle
Well, I hate to be a Danny Downer, but IMO while of course it's necessary, and likely that many of us don't get enough, it's also one of the most overhyped minerals and some caution is warranted.

For example, if you have a slow heartbeat, then magnesium is the last thing you need. If you're not getting enough calcium (and yes, many people aren't), then taking magnesium will worsen that balance.

And the most overhyped cliche is "Magnesium relaxes muscles, while calcium constricts them". Not exactly true. A severe calcium deficiency is called tetany, which results in strong, strong muscle cramps, and also twitching similar to that of magnesium.

It may also influence/worsen candida infections:

http://mic.microbiologyresearch.org/content/journal/micro/10.1099/00221287-130-8-1941

Balance is the key...and finding that balance sometimes can be difficult.

Okay, I'll shut up. :)
 
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Messages
56
About the topical magnesium... I've just started using Life Flo magnesium chloride lotion on my leg muscles and I don't notice an effect at all... maybe that means I'm not deficient?
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,380
Location
Austria
Just today got my first magnesium sulfate IV. :)

High intakes of Vitamin D dramatically increase need for Mg.

Good reminder. My Mg deficiency started by supplementing vitamin D3 to reach therapeutic serum levels with an other condition 9 years ago. Causing severe and pain-full muscle cramps. Then found over time this cramps can be mostly avoided by getting at least 2 g/d of oral ELEMENTAL magnesium. Other than so many others, in my case if doesn't matter which kind of Mg - nor is one or the other more laxative for me - just the total elemental amount contained counts. Tried transdermal, but didn't lower my oral need at all. (Also wrote Carolyn Dean about my experience, along with a study which shows that even Mg oxide absorbs as the other compounds in the long run, but only got a disconnected sales pitch for her overpriced products back. Disappointing)

However, being stuck for years in deficiency despite high oral intake, the IVs have become necessary.
 

Chocolove

Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again
Messages
548
@pamojja From reading excerpts by Carolyn Dean I gather she had a lot of problems successfully absorbing magnesium and ended up creating her own product so she could successfully absorb it. As noted below:

https://drcarolyndean.com/magnesium_miracle/
I decided to create a magnesium product that I could use for my own symptoms. It’s called ReMag Magnesium Solution. It’s picometer-sized which means it’s absorbed 100% at the cellular level, so your cells have immediate access to usable magnesium. ReMag is a 60,000ppm concentration of 99.99% pure elemental pico meter magnesium. It’s 100% bio-available and can be used topically as well. Another bonus: no laxative effect!

Let me explain the laxative effect with this mineral. Magnesium has a wonderful failsafe mechanism that prevents it from building up in the body – the laxative effect. What’s not absorbed into the bloodstream and into the cells after a dose of magnesium goes through the kidneys into the urine and also through the intestines as loose stool.

My problem is that any other form of magnesium in pills or powder gave me a fairly immediate laxative effect. This means I’m unable to get enough magnesium into my blood and cells to effectively fight my magnesium deficiency symptoms before it explodes out the other end!! Sorry, a bit dramatic, but that’s what happens to a certain percentage of magnesium users. When I began using the right type of magnesium [ReMag] I finally found relief for most of my magnesium deficiency symptoms (heart palpitations, charley horses, insomnia, muscle twitching) with no laxative effect.
 

Misfit Toy

Senior Member
Messages
4,178
Location
USA
At first transdermal mag was wonderful...then it stopped working. ancient minerals is sticky and gross and it stays wet on my skin. If anyone has or knows one that works and is absorbed, do let me know.

I take mag glycerinate by Kal everyday and Natural Calm and notice nothing.
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,380
Location
Austria
@pamojja From reading excerpts by Carolyn Dean I gather she had a lot of problems successfully absorbing magnesium and ended up creating her own product so she could successfully absorb it./

Sure. But I don't have her problem with explosions even slightly above 2 g/d. Just was interested in discussing this usually ignored science about Mg-absorbtion - confirmed in my experience - with her. Since she too spreads the myth that Mg-oxide would almost not be absorbed.. and certainly didn't expect to get an totally unrelated unscientific sales pitch:

https://www.pharmazeutische-zeitung.de/index.php?id=29065

Only the study by Coudray (2), which was carried out in rats, meets the above requirements for the determination of a complete balance of the magnesium uptake, retention and excretion. The test groups did not differ in body weight, intestinal solubility of magnesium (necessary for the absorption), magnesium in serum, erythrocytes and femur. In the absorption, excretion and retention of magnesium (which remained in the body), there was, however, in this study between MgO, MgCl 2, MgSO 4, MgCO 3, Mg acetate, Mg-pidolate, Mg-citrate, magnesium lactate and magnesium aspartate no significant differences.

ReMag is a 60,000ppm concentration of 99.99% pure elemental pico meter magnesium. It’s 100% bio-available and can be used topically as well.

If so, I would want to see at least some science before handing out that much money for that little Mg chloride.
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
I take mag glycerinate by Kal everyday and Natural Calm and notice nothing.
Unfortunately, both of these products contain arsenic, which can negatively impact ATP production.

Many magnesium products contain arsenic as well - it seems to be a naturally occurring contaminant. Best to ask the manufacturers if they test for it.

I use Seeking Health Magnesium Plus and Designs for Health Magnesium Malate.
 
Messages
75
About the topical magnesium... I've just started using Life Flo magnesium chloride lotion on my leg muscles and I don't notice an effect at all... maybe that means I'm not deficient?

If you are really depleted it may take a while to really feel things kicking in- remember it's the 4th most abundant in your body and a couple hundred mg. isn't much to a multi gram deficiency--but I wouldn't stop using it- maybe increase coverage and throw in an epsom salt bath frequently.

Danny Bex- you make some good points and some are calcium deficient BUT most studies I have seen say single nutrient deficiencies are unusual. I guess what I am saying is that they are likely Mg. deficient as well and should be supplemented 1/1 cal/Mg. Your body holds on to Ca. more tightly than Mg. because supposedly our original environment was far richer in Mg. than Ca.

I am pleasantly surprised by the number of people already supplementing with Mg. but not shocked as most people who frequent this forum are actively looking for answers and ways to get well.

I've read Deans book and watched some yourtubes with her and I come away that she's serious about people getting better, but I'm sure she needs to make a living as well.
 
Messages
75
One thing I should add-- if you ask your Md. to test be sure it is an RBC test.

They mistakenly did a serum test for me(requested RBC) and it showed high Mg. but I demanded another draw and retest for RBC-- it came back 4.5 which is quite low.

I am shooting for 6-6.5 but it may take a while.
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,380
Location
Austria
One thing I should add-- if you ask your Md. to test be sure it is an RBC test.

Where I life it's actually the other way around. The doc who gave me the Mg-infusion asked me how to assess Mg deficiency, since serum test usually don't show. Explained that I had whole blood Mg tests paid out of my own pocket, since RBC isn't actually available here. My serum Mg is within normal, whole blood - a mix of serum and RBC - very deficient at 31 mg/l (34-36 normal range). Therefore combining these 2 tests logically my RBC must be much worse.

I've read Deans book and watched some yourtubes with her and I come away that she's serious about people getting better, but I'm sure she needs to make a living as well.

We all need to make a living and can't always say the truth (for example what you really think about your boss ;-), but there is an ethical limit I wouldn't cross. If even docs are apologized for selling their products by not telling the truth, we have come very far. At least with self-informed patient forums, where I read many of these threads about best bio-available Mg supplements, till now I never came across anyone taking her products long term and recommending them.

I guess what I am saying is that they are likely Mg. deficient as well and should be supplemented 1/1 cal/Mg.

Everyone is different and therefore don't really like such ratios given to everyone. One thing for sure, the usual recommended Ca/Mg ratio of 2:1 is completely off. Also consider that most get much more Ca from diet then Mg already (in my case 1.1g Ca vs. 0.6g Mg per day). Personally seem to do well with a 1:2 ratio from supplements alone. My low Ca actually came up by supplementing sufficient vitamin D3 only.
 

keenly

Senior Member
Messages
814
Location
UK
Sure. But I don't have her problem with explosions even slightly above 2 g/d. Just was interested in discussing this usually ignored science about Mg-absorbtion - confirmed in my experience - with her. Since she too spreads the myth that Mg-oxide would almost not be absorbed.. and certainly didn't expect to get an totally unrelated unscientific sales pitch:





If so, I would want to see at least some science before handing out that much money for that little Mg chloride.

Oxide is a terrible form.
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,380
Location
Austria
Oxide is a terrible form.

Well, not in my experience of supplementing all forms for 9 years in high doses. First half of this time period I tried all allegedly better absorbed forms (malate, glycinate, citrate, ascorbate, threonate..) and measured serum, whole blood and hair tissue. Beside my main indication of a certain intake threshold in elemental Mg to cease pain-full muscle cramps.

About 5 years ago I came across that fault in most Mg absorption research and started with Mg-oxide, with as good results as any of the allegedly better absorbed form. But internet myths die hard, and there is a lot of profit to be made in sustaining them.

Of course everything is an individual thing due to biochemical-individuality. So if Mg-oxide indeed cause loose stuhl at lower doses than an other Mg-compound with equal elemental Mg in an individual, then it's a no-brainer. If not, no reason to waste money.
 

keenly

Senior Member
Messages
814
Location
UK
Well, not in my experience of supplementing all forms for 9 years in high doses. First half of this time period I tried all allegedly better absorbed forms (malate, glycinate, citrate, ascorbate, threonate..) and measured serum, whole blood and hair tissue. Beside my main indication of a certain intake threshold in elemental Mg to cease pain-full muscle cramps.

About 5 years ago I came across that fault in most Mg absorption research and started with Mg-oxide, with as good results as any of the allegedly better absorbed form. But internet myths die hard, and there is a lot of profit to be made in sustaining them.

Of course everything is an individual thing due to biochemical-individuality. So if Mg-oxide indeed cause loose stuhl at lower doses than an other Mg-compound with equal elemental Mg in an individual, then it's a no-brainer. If not, no reason to waste money.

Oxides are poorly absorbed; FACT. Not myth.