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Any recommendations for Fat Malabsorption and Calcium Oxalate Stones?

P

Peyt

Senior Member
Messages
678
Location
Southern California
Hi,
I just got my OAT test results back and I have high oxilic (Range is 8.9 - 67 and mine is 112),
This makes total sense since I have been suffering from multiple episodes of kidney stones in the last 10 years.
I also have some gut issues including SIBO and Gut dysbiosis.
All my doctor has recommended at this point is to cut down on the Oxalate foods which I am not too happy about since it includes berries and raspberries are one of the few things I could eat without any side effects(or at least that's what i thought!).
My question is: are there any herbs or supplements that would help Fat malabsorption? I tried Ox bile but it made me sick. Any other products anyone knows about?
Thanks so much.
 
Mary

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,365
Location
Southern California
Hi @Peyt - You might have low stomach acid. Many people with ME/CFS have low stomach acid and it's difficult to digest fats and protein without sufficient stomach acid. I used to have difficulty with digesting fats and meat until I started taking betaine HCL with meals. I've been taking it for many years and it's made a world of difference in my digestion.

I just read that SIBO can contribute to oxalate sensitivity. Well, SIBO has been linked to low stomach acid. Stomach acid helps keep bacteria in proper proportions, and if it's low, then certain bacteria can grow unimpeded. Low stomach acid could also contribute to your dysbiosis. And low stomach acid could just contribute to oxalate sensitivity because your body will be unable to properly process the oxalates without sufficient stomach acid.

A simple test to check stomach acid is dissolve 1/4 or 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in 8 ounces of water, and drink on an empty stomach. The empty stomach part is important because the baking soda will neutralize your stomach acid. After drinking, you should burp within a few minutes and if you don't, it can be an indication of low stomach acid.
 
P

Peyt

Senior Member
Messages
678
Location
Southern California
Mary said:
Hi @Peyt - You might have low stomach acid. Many people with ME/CFS have low stomach acid and it's difficult to digest fats and protein without sufficient stomach acid. I used to have difficulty with digesting fats and meat until I started taking betaine HCL with meals. I've been taking it for many years and it's made a world of difference in my digestion.

I just read that SIBO can contribute to oxalate sensitivity. Well, SIBO has been linked to low stomach acid. Stomach acid helps keep bacteria in proper proportions, and if it's low, then certain bacteria can grow unimpeded. Low stomach acid could also contribute to your dysbiosis. And low stomach acid could just contribute to oxalate sensitivity because your body will be unable to properly process the oxalates without sufficient stomach acid.

A simple test to check stomach acid is dissolve 1/4 or 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in 8 ounces of water, and drink on an empty stomach. The empty stomach part is important because the baking soda will neutralize your stomach acid. After drinking, you should burp within a few minutes and if you don't, it can be an indication of low stomach acid.
Click to expand...
That's so true!
I don't do well with Betaine that is usually included in the HCL ... So I was looking at taking Apple Cider Vinegar tablets with my food... Would that do the same thing?
 
C

Crux

Senior Member
Messages
1,441
Location
USA
I'm trialing TUDCA and bile acids for fat metabolism and fatty liver.

I've read that bile acids and taurine, which is in tudca, may inhibit production of calcium oxalate stones.
 
C

Crux

Senior Member
Messages
1,441
Location
USA
I've read that tudca may lower inflammtory iNOS, which could raise blood pressure if excess NO is the cause of low bp.

But, I've also read that some NO is regulated in the liver. It looks like a healthy liver will produce less iNOS , which will allow eNOS to function, which may normalize bp.

Taurine may increase Acetylcholine production, which increases NO, and that could lower bp, along with increasing blood vessel dilation.

Jarrow's Bile Acid Factors has less tudca, but does contain some udca, meaning less taurine.

Peyt said:
Do you know if TUDCA lowers blood pressure or dilates blood vessels in any way?
Click to expand...

This is a difficult question that has been confusing me, and researchers seem to have some difficulty with it too regarding NO production.
 
P

Peyt

Senior Member
Messages
678
Location
Southern California
This study suggests that Taurine could cause hypotension and tachycardia :
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23392950

I remember trying out Taurine a few years ago and it gave me a bad headache.. But I have real poor blood flow to my head in addition to Sinus Tachycardia and Hypotension.

I am actually using a supplement called Uridine which has been helping with those issues.
 
C

Crux

Senior Member
Messages
1,441
Location
USA
The fact that taurine dilates vessels may be why many folks here have side effects from it.
Also, it's loaded with sulfur, and many of us have a difficult sulfur metabolism.

I see that uridine is a vasoconstrictor, I'm not sure how.

iNOS is a very powerful vasodilator, macrophages, T cells, etc. produce NO to battle infection. If we can inhibit infection, we may lower this pathogenic process .

Also, if we can find the causes of liver inflammation, and correct them, we're gonna get a whole lot better, I believe.

There are other ways to treat the liver, I recommended bile acids because I'm beginning to improve taking them.
 
PatJ

PatJ

Forum Support Assistant
Messages
5,288
Location
Canada
Peyt said:
are there any herbs or supplements that would help Fat malabsorption?
Click to expand...

Digestive enzymes that contain lipase should help. Two products that are higher than usual in lipase to support fat digestion are Trophic Fat Digestive Enzymes and Enzymedica Lypo Gold (roughly triple the amount of Trophic). Lypo gold claims to digest up to 22 grams of fat in 30 minutes.

Peyt said:
I don't do well with Betaine that is usually included in the HCL ... So I was looking at taking Apple Cider Vinegar tablets with my food... Would that do the same thing?
Click to expand...

Lots of people use ACV as a supplemental form of acid to help with digestion. Most use 1 tsp to 1 tablespoon before a meal. I have low stomach acid but it's so low that ACV doesn't provide enough support. I also can't take much ACV without it lowering my blood pressure which is already far too low.

Digestive Bitters may be another option for you. They encourage the body to produce enzymes and stomach acid naturally. For some people they're enough, for me bitters act as an aid but I still need Betaine HCL with pepsin, and digestive enzymes. Nature's Answer Bitters and Ginger is a good digestive bitters, without alcohol and is very economical compared to traditional bitters.

Edit (months later): I discovered my fatigue from ACV wasn't due to lowering blood pressure but because it was lowering my blood sugar.
 
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P

Peyt

Senior Member
Messages
678
Location
Southern California
PatJ said:
Digestive Bitters may be another option for you. They encourage the body to produce enzymes and stomach acid naturally. For some people they're enough, for me bitters act as an aid but I still need Betaine HCL with pepsin, and digestive enzymes. Nature's Answer Bitters and Ginger is a good digestive bitters, without alcohol and is very economical compared to traditional bitters.
Click to expand...

After some thought and searching through different bitter products, I decided to place an order for this one:


https://www.urbanmoonshine.com/products/cider-vinegar-bitters
Reason being, it does not have alcohol or Glycerin (which I do poorly with)... it's base is ACV.
I ordered it on amazon. Crossing my fingers to see if it actually works or not... should have it in a few days.
 
PatJ

PatJ

Forum Support Assistant
Messages
5,288
Location
Canada
Peyt said:
does not have alcohol
Click to expand...

An easy way to remove the alcohol is to add one dose of bitters to a heat resistant cup (like a teacup), then add a little boiling water to it. The alcohol evaporates almost immediately.
 
P

Peyt

Senior Member
Messages
678
Location
Southern California
Update,
I have started drinking 2 cups of stinging nettle tea for the last 2 days. Stinging nettle is suppose to help with Oxalates.
 
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P

Peyt

Senior Member
Messages
678
Location
Southern California
It appears that there is a specific Bacteria in the gut that does a great job of degrading Oxalates, it's called Oxalobacter fromigenes .
There is a product going through Phase III that is suppose to help with this issue:
 
P

prioris

Senior Member
Messages
622
Peyt said:
It appears that there is a specific Bacteria in the gut that does a great job of degrading Oxalates, it's called Oxalobacter fromigenes .
There is a product going through Phase III that is suppose to help with this issue:
Click to expand...

I think their plan is to make it available to only doctors which severely limits accessibility and raises cost substantially even when it becomes available. And who knows whether it will work for many people. The body internally creates oxalates too.
 
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