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Antibodies to Herpes Simplex Types 1 and 2 in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

pattismith

Senior Member
Messages
3,925
I couldn't find this article from 2011, so posted it :

Antibodies to Herpes Simplex Types 1 and 2 in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
P. A. Bond & T. G. Dinan
Pages 35-40 | Published online: 04 Dec 2011

Abstract
Background: It has been suggested that Herpes simplex virus (HSV) could play a role in the aetiology of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). An immune system that has been compromised, could account for HSV reactivating or infecting for the first time, and also being insufficiently under control in the body. Another consequence of inadequate control could be that several strains of HSV could simultaneously infect the body.

Objectives: To look for the presence of antibodies to HSV-1 and HSV-2 in patients with CSF and in controls. The presence of antibodies to both types of HSV could reflect infection by multiple strains of HSV.

Methods: Antibodies to HSV-1 and HSV-2 were measured in sera from 27 CSF patients and 26 age-and sex-matched controls. CFS was diagnosed using the CDC criteria.

Results: More CFS patients had antibodies to HSV-1, HSV-2 and both types simultaneously, than did the controls (all p < .019).

Conclusions: More CFS patients have antibodies to both HSV-1 and HSV-2 than do controls. The possibility that multiple strains could recombine to form more virulent strains or ones able to cause different forms of illness is discussed.
 

pattismith

Senior Member
Messages
3,925
That is scary! Does that mean other viruses in the herpes family can recombine?

Only HSV1 and HSV2 I think.

The interest of this study is that they found twice more CFS/ME patients with both positivity for HSV1 and HSV2 than in the controls.

I am myself positive for both, so I got interested into it,
did you have the test done @BadBadBear ?

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Wonkmonk

Senior Member
Messages
1,003
Location
Germany
I have HSV-1 IgG titer of ">1:20,000", which is so high that it's outside the range where the lab even measures the titer. I believe there is a connection to my CFS.

I am HSV-2 negative, though.

But I'd take this particular study with a grain of salt. The sample sizes are very low.
 

jason30

Senior Member
Messages
493
Location
Europe
I have HSV-1 IgG titer of ">1:20,000", which is so high that it's outside the range where the lab even measures the titer. I believe there is a connection to my CFS.

I am HSV-2 negative, though.

But I'd take this particular study with a grain of salt. The sample sizes are very low.

I wonder if you did do something against the high IgG titers? I have the same.
 

lauluce

as long as you manage to stay alive, there's hope
Messages
591
Location
argentina
well, this is exactly like me, I have high antibody tithers for hsv1 and hsv2, if I remember correctly, my antibody tither for hsv2 is 1:40000
 

gbells

Improved ME from 2 to 6
Messages
1,484
Location
Alexandria, VA USA
No, only in the initial infection stages. Later on they fall. Dr. Lehrner theorized that multiple viruses block each other so they stop reproducing. However, as the research stated, they may increase the number of infected cells so that it overwhelms the body even though they later become non-infectious and the anti-body levels fall.
 

lauluce

as long as you manage to stay alive, there's hope
Messages
591
Location
argentina
No, only in the initial infection stages. Later on they fall. Dr. Lehrner theorized that multiple viruses block each other so they stop reproducing. However, as the research stated, they may increase the number of infected cells so that it overwhelms the body even though they later become non-infectious and the anti-body levels fall.
I still got 1:40000 for HSV2, 10 years after the symptoms started
 

lauluce

as long as you manage to stay alive, there's hope
Messages
591
Location
argentina
Do you believe that the high titers plays a role in your symptoms?
I think it's very likely that HSV-2 plays some role in my symptoms. Two years after the start of my CFS symptoms started, I experienced the common mouth and genital herpes symptoms (this was at 16 yrs old, I didn't still had any sexual activity at the time), coinciding with a marked increase in ME/CFS symptoms. I only got the blood test for HSV1 and HSV2 10 years later, and even then the hsv2 tithers where 1:40000 igg. I really think this must mean something... what do you guys think? should I try oral acyclovir?
 

lauluce

as long as you manage to stay alive, there's hope
Messages
591
Location
argentina
How is your immune response? Do you get infections easily? Dental problems?
my immune response seems to be normal besides the fact my colds have extreme symptoms, altough I think that's just because the symptoms of the cold and CFS add up, such as pain and fatigue. However, a year before the herpes symptoms, I caught what now I believe is "Bornholm disease", as I had extreme chest in my whole trunk for one week. Along with the HSV! and HSV2 tests, I took a Coxsackie B virus test and had high igg antibodies. This test, again, was took ten years after the symptoms
"Bornholm disease (also called pleurodynia) is a viral infection that causes pain in the chest or upper tummy and flu-like symptoms. It usually clears up by itself after a few days, but can sometimes last longer (up to 3 weeks). Bornholm disease mainly affects children and young adults. "
 

Wonkmonk

Senior Member
Messages
1,003
Location
Germany
I wonder if you did do something against the high IgG titers? I have the same.

Sorry for responding late, I don't visit the forum very often. I have basically given up searching for new treatments.

I tried 4 different antivirals including one that is only available in Japan and was imported by my local pharmacy at my request (see my old threads for details) in addition to the Pridgen protocol (adding cox inhibitors), antinflammatory drugs in combination with antivirals (e.g. choloroquine + valacyclovir as suggested by Dr Montoya) and a host of phytotherapeutic remedies that are thought to have antiviral properties (curcumin,resveratrol, licorice etc.). Nothing had a sustainable positive effect.

Interestingly, I recently tried some dietary interventions and some seem to be quite effective at least to some extent.

For instance, I found that monounsaturated fat makes me worse. That's interesting because these fats are said to be healthy (avocado, olives, almonds etc. are high in monounsaturated fat).

For some time (3 years or so) I know that I do best at a vitamin D level of 20-25 and a daily calcium intake of 800-1000mg, so I try to get in that range. No clue why, but high dietary calcium or vitamin d always makes me worse.

I also found that I am reacting very negatively to rice (brown more than white) and apples, and I presume that is because of the arsenic content. Same with chocolate (heavy metals, esp. cadmium. Have to avoid).

I also seem to do better when I avoid high amounts of carotenoids (leafy greens, carrots, sweet potatoes). I am taking a vitamin A supplement instead, which seems to work better.

It also seems keeping histamine relatively low helps a bit. I can tolerate some of it, but have to avoid the worst offenders (canned fish etc. - fresh fish is ok, that's why I think it's the histamine).

Most recently, I am experimenting with limiting starchy foods (pasta, potatoes, legumes) or with making these foods higher in resistent starch in order to reduce the digestible starch content. That seems to help, too.

These changes really helped me. I wouldn't say it's a game changer (I'm still mostly bedridden), but it has give me a substantial improvement in quality of life (mostly a reduction in pain, a bit more energy and more mental clarity). It really helps.

I plan to write all my experiences in a thread, because maybe it helps someone else, too. But I have to first understand it a bit better, especially the starch thing, which I discovered only recently.
 

Wonkmonk

Senior Member
Messages
1,003
Location
Germany
Regarding my last post and the possible significance of dietary interventions in chronic idiopathic disease management, I would recommend everyone to look into the case of Mikhaila and Jordan Peterson. They say, and I have no reason to disbelieve them, that radical dietary changes led to a complete remission of their chronic ailments of unknown origin.

Their dietary approach is very radical and I wouldn't recommend anyone to follow it, but it is very interesting as a case for how important dietary changes can be in the management of some diseases.