ALCAR, Ashwagandha, Bacopa, Alpha-Lipoic Acid all make me tired. Acetylcholine problem?

[newbie1985]

ALCAR, Ashwagandha, Bacopa, Alpha-Lipoic Acid all that supplements make me tired after a day of usage. What is common in these supplements is they all alter acetylcholine in some way. I was wondering if this is the reason why I am tired if I take it and if I could do anything about it and take these supplements.

DMEA doesn't give me any tiredness. So I have been thinking. Is the problem that all that supps depletes choline (by -increased acetylcholine for memory/focus).

Any thoughts?

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@newbie1985
I'd be interested in all those questions, too.

I reacted poorly to ashwagandha, which I'd had high hopes for. Still have an unopened bottle of Bacopa that I'm afraid to try, so more thoughts on that would be welcome as well. ALA created problems as well, but now I can't recall what they were, just that I had to stop it and have a shite load of it on hand, which I'd love not to waste, ditto Acetyl-L-Carnitine, which has so many side benefits that it's a shame to watch it loitering on my kitchen counter, back in the corner, looking all sullen and forlorn. I'd put in the same cabinet as the Bacopa, but I'm afraid they'd get together and start plotting something unpleasant.

 

[pattismith]

It's difficult to say, but carnitine has the hability to prevent T3 and T4 action

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

It's difficult to say, but carnitine has the hability to prevent T3 and T4 action

Well, that would definitely explain that. Still not sure why an adaptogen like ashwagandha would react badly in my system, and still hesitant to give Bacopa a try before my bottle ages past the 'use by' date.

Thanks, as always, @pattismith , you're terrific

 

[JES]

ALCAR, Ashwagandha, Bacopa, Alpha-Lipoic Acid all that supplements make me tired after a day of usage.

They are all antioxidants. Antioxidants affect my immune system negatively and make my fatigue and flu-like symptoms worse. Another reason could be the action on GABA receptors of Ashwagandha and Bacopa.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Another reason could be the action on GABA receptors of Ashwagandha and Bacopa.

@JES
That was my assumption with the ashwagandha, and the reason I didn't start the Bacopa Monnieri. I seem to have unpleasantly down-regulated GABA receptors along with profound sensitivity to anything excitotoxic, along with all the usual suspects like PEMs and POTs. None of which explains the ALCAR, tho strong antioxidant activity would seem to. Thanks for the reminder. There's so much I've forgotten or just can't hang on to apparently. Very depressing.

But I refuse to cave. Somewhere there's something that will continue to improve this, with or without setbacks. There already has been. But I've hit a plateau, and a bit of a backslide. And although I stopped looking for a cure a while back, some slow, steady continued improvement would be, like, great.

 

[pattismith]

The idea of acetylcholine alteration was a good one indeed!

ALA is binding (and activates them) muscarinic acetylcholine receptors M1 and M2 in the brain, Ashwaganda and ALCAR bind M1

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0361923016300272
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-48238-6.pdf?origin=ppub
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0028390802002253

Something to know about muscarinic activators is that the dose can modulate greatly their activity, and sometimes higher dose can lead to an inhibitor activity on these receptors!

 

[pamojja]

ALCAR, Ashwagandha, Bacopa, Alpha-Lipoic Acid all that supplements make me tired after a day of usage.

Though not the others, higher doses of Ashwagandha and Bacopa also did make me more tired. Used it to get more sleep and with time this side-effect stopped. I do however also use different forms of cholines. Which in the beginning also gave me the side-effect at higher doses of jaw-clenching. Meanwhile my tolerance to cholines seems to have increased, and I don't get this side-effect anymore.

 

[PatJ]

make me tired

They all influence blood sugar levels and might lower blood sugar.

I already have problems keeping my blood sugar up so taking ALA is guaranteed to wipe me out because it either lowers my blood sugar or prevents it from rising. Maybe something similar is happening to you?

 

[Sarah94]

I know that ALCAR and ALA can both affect the thyroid negatively... or the thyroid hormone activity... I forget which.