AI search Chronic varicella, natural killer cells.

[heapsreal]

Chronic varicella zoster, natural killer cells
Chronic varicella zoster virus (VZV) infection is characterized by the persistence of viral DNA in latently infected neurons and the periodic reactivation of the virus, leading to herpes zoster (shingles). Natural killer (NK) cells play a crucial role in the immune response to VZV infection, both during primary infection and latency.

NK Cell Phenotype and Function

Studies have shown that NK cells exhibit altered phenotypes during chronic VZV infection. For example, invariant NK T cells (iNKT) have been found to have low numbers and an altered phenotype in recurrent VZV infection (Novakova et al., 2011). Additionally, VZV has been shown to productively infect human NK cells and manipulate their phenotype (Campbell et al., 2018).

NK Cell Cytotoxicity and Granzyme B

Granzyme B, a key mediator of NK cell cytotoxicity, has been found to cleave multiple VZV gene products, including ORF4, which inhibits NK cell cytotoxicity (Gerada et al., 2019). This suggests that VZV has evolved mechanisms to evade NK cell-mediated immune surveillance.

Implications for Chronic VZV Infection

The altered NK cell phenotype and function during chronic VZV infection may contribute to the persistence of the virus and the development of herpes zoster. Furthermore, the ability of VZV to infect and manipulate NK cells may allow the virus to evade immune detection and persist in a latent state.

Summary

In summary, chronic varicella zoster virus infection is associated with altered natural killer cell phenotypes and functions, including reduced numbers and altered surface markers, as well as productive infection and manipulation of NK cells by the virus. These findings highlight the complex interplay between VZV and the immune system during chronic infection and suggest that NK cells play a critical role in the immune response to VZV.

 

[heapsreal]

I just posted this as I think it suits my situation so closely. I get episodes of shingles on my head, which don't particularly hurt, maybe abit itchy but I think the overall headache pain overrides any pain from the rash.

I have similar episodes but no rash. The rash episodes I actually feel worse 5 days prior, than the spots come out and I know I've got a few days to go. Than it's just that post viral bla for a week and then I'm OK until the next episode.

August last year was my last shingles episode but in the last 2 months I've had 2 episodes. Staying on famir I think reduces the severity. It can be hard to know what it is. This year I was getting night sweats when asleep and wake up with my shirt ringing wet. It's winter here so not a weather thing. But after 2 weeks of this and feeling generally crappy, the spots came out and I had another 5 days of crap and then slowly improved until the next one.

Ebv and cmv were definitely played a part in starting my cfs yrs ago and now it feels like it's just varicella, although maybe the times I get these episodes without a rash it could be cmv or ebv???

 

[Treeman]

Ebv and cmv were definitely played a part in starting my cfs yrs ago and now it feels like it's just varicella, although maybe the times I get these episodes without a rash it could be cmv or ebv???

Shingles can be active without a rash forming. Details in the link to an article below.

I get shingles reactivation without a rash very commonly


https://ada.com/signs-of-shingles/

 

[vision blue]

@heapsreal Thats like what hapoens to me. I was just thinking i bet i feel so awful because it a frw days i will have lesions on my forehead. I too feel better once theres some visual manifestation of the virus, for me i believe hsv1 not hzoster but have never definitively proven
I have also started wondering if the current viruses and the nerves are actually what leads to PMA and GCA

 

[heapsreal]

Shingles can be active without a rash forming. Details in the link to an article below.

I get shingles reactivation without a rash very commonly


https://ada.com/signs-of-shingles/

I understand zoster sine herpete, just hard to diagnose or prove. What makes me think I probably have it is I get similar symptoms minus the rash. I just can't get viral titre numbers tested here, which would be helpful.
I have heard of people have severe pain that comes and goes say on their back and a couple years or more a rash then appears.
I do get a pain around my ribs, I'm expecting one day I will wake up to a big rash on my ribs.
Thanks for the link, I will have a read

 

[heapsreal]

@heapsreal Thats like what hapoens to me. I was just thinking i bet i feel so awful because it a frw days i will have lesions on my forehead. I too feel better once theres some visual manifestation of the virus, for me i believe hsv1 not hzoster but have never definitively proven
I have also started wondering if the current viruses and the nerves are actually what leads to PMA and GCA

The herpes viruses definitely effects the nerves, so any condition arising from the nerves, it would suprise me from a herpes virus.

 

[Blazer95]

the reduced NK T Cell part is very interesting to me, because mine are very low.

but then again how do you differentiate between active and inactive? i have gotten an LTT but they seem ultimatively useless, so IgG? Ultimatively understanding ME is like reading a book in mandarin - without mandarin knowledge.

I have IgM deficiency so most likely every IgM Test will result in a false negative.

but for the nerds: NK T Cells arent NK Cells. They are T-Cells that express NK-like functions

 

[heapsreal]

the reduced NK T Cell part is very interesting to me, because mine are very low.

but then again how do you differentiate between active and inactive? i have gotten an LTT but they seem ultimatively useless, so IgG? Ultimatively understanding ME is like reading a book in mandarin - without mandarin knowledge.

I have IgM deficiency so most likely every IgM Test will result in a false negative.

but for the nerds: NK T Cells arent NK Cells. They are T-Cells that express NK-like functions

I think the low nk function leaves us open to infections and viral reactivations. From memory cd56 and maybe cd3 T cells are nk cells or possibly just cd56 cells.

For me I find reactivated viruses increase cd4 and cd8 t cells the most but it's non specific and won't tell you which virus but have to guess by symptoms and previous exposure.

 

[godlovesatrier]

I often think my nk activity must be shit but if it is irs been relapse remitting for ages.

I was recovering fine from COVID infection no 3 until Monday when I had a fairly severe crash.

But back on topic I noticed that if I take reishi mushroom when I can't sleep it actually completely relaxes me and allows me to nod off. Nothing else tends to have this effect. But as it's a potent nk cell modulator I wonder if thats why.

COVID fatigue is brutal tho. Just trying to stay awake at the moment working full time. I think there's tons of COVID in my gut as I feel a lot worse after eating. Just wish I had an immune modulator to keep me awake.

 

[Blazer95]

I think the low nk function leaves us open to infections and viral reactivations. From memory cd56 and maybe cd3 T cells are nk cells or possibly just cd56 cells.

For me I find reactivated viruses increase cd4 and cd8 t cells the most but it's non specific and won't tell you which virus but have to guess by symptoms and previous exposure.

my NK function is still working, suprsingly. but my th17 and th2 part of immune system is close to non-working. i suspect my elevated 1.25-vitamin D to be the cause of this.

but then again i never had postviral ME - i have postbacterial ME wich might even present completely different.

thanks for your share on this heap!

 

[Violeta]

Has anyone tried berberine for the pain? I had shingles on my face in 2017, and have had postherpetic neuralgia every day since then, although the degree of the pain varies. I have also had minor outbreaks that consist of several lesions that can clear up in a day or two if I do something right.

Yesterday the pain was very severe, and I had a headache, too. The pain is in my eye, too, very sharp.

I took some berberine and the pain reduced to almost nothing in about 15 minutes. I couldn't believe it.

I had to take another dose during the night. I don't know how much I'm going to have to take to keep the pain to a minimum, but I better go find out how much is too much.

PS: Two things that cause an outbreak for me are chicken and eggs. Isn't that weird! I had some pork for several days in a row and am wondering if that caused the worsening of pain this week.

 

[Violeta]

But back on topic I noticed that if I take reishi mushroom when I can't sleep it actually completely relaxes me and allows me to nod off. Nothing else tends to have this effect. But as it's a potent nk cell modulator I wonder if thats why.

I didn't know this about reishi. It helps me sleep well, too.

I hope you can get back to baseline soon. So sad what COVID has been causing.

 

[Violeta]

I understand zoster sine herpete, just hard to diagnose or prove. What makes me think I probably have it is I get similar symptoms minus the rash. I just can't get viral titre numbers tested here, which would be helpful.
I have heard of people have severe pain that comes and goes say on their back and a couple years or more a rash then appears.
I do get a pain around my ribs, I'm expecting one day I will wake up to a big rash on my ribs.
Thanks for the link, I will have a read

I did not know about zoster sine herpete.

"ZSH not only causes initial symptoms, such as neuropathic pain in the affected nerve, Bell palsy, and Ramsay Hunt syndrome, but also postherpetic neuralgia and fatal complications such as VZV encephalitis and stroke."

 

[heapsreal]

I did not know about zoster sine herpete.

"ZSH not only causes initial symptoms, such as neuropathic pain in the affected nerve, Bell palsy, and Ramsay Hunt syndrome, but also postherpetic neuralgia and fatal complications such as VZV encephalitis and stroke."

Also a condition called mollaretes meningitis which can be caused by varicella but commonly by herpes type 2. Reading the symptoms, one could easily swap mollaretes for cfs/me, maybe a specific sub group of cfsme??

 

[Violeta]

Also a condition called mollaretes meningitis which can be caused by varicella but commonly by herpes type 2. Reading the symptoms, one could easily swap mollaretes for cfs/me, maybe a specific sub group of cfsme??

Wow, and no one has found anything to avoid reoccurences.

When I had shingles, my symptoms weren't only along the trigeminal nerve. I was vomiting, sick all over. It didn't make sense from what I knew about the virus back then.

I wonder if the virus affects the vagus nerve.

 

[Violeta]

I was looking at PUFA with respect to viruses, was led to 5-LOX, and just now to mannose-binding lectin.

I don't know where to go with this, but will see if I can find a way around it.
So far, I have this: leukotrienes, they increase MMP9, which can lower MBL

 

[Violeta]

@heapsreal Thats like what hapoens to me. I was just thinking i bet i feel so awful because it a frw days i will have lesions on my forehead. I too feel better once theres some visual manifestation of the virus, for me i believe hsv1 not hzoster but have never definitively proven
I have also started wondering if the current viruses and the nerves are actually what leads to PMA and GCA

Just found this. It's hard to find markers specifically related to polymyalgia rheumatica!

Mannose-binding lectin (MBL) is an immune system protein that binds to sugars, allowing it to interact with a variety of microorganisms. Studies have found that MBL variant alleles are associated with polymyalgia rheumatica (PMR) and giant cell arteritis (GCA):

From February:

Leukotrienes ( LTC4 and -D4 )enhanced the TNF-α-induced MMP-9 production via binding the cysLT1 receptor in human monocytes/macrophages. (leukotrienes is only one of the things that enhances MMP-9 production)

MMP9 (matrix malloproteinase) may lower mannose binding lectins.

 

[vision blue]

@Violeta
That’s interesting. I wonder if thats connected to observatiion certain nationalities more likely to get PMR, something i came across recently.

I wonder how the vascuar component fire in that. Other thing made me think of is any mention of leukortrianes make me wonder about mast cells.

 

[vision blue]

I did not know about zoster sine herpete.

"ZSH not only causes initial symptoms, such as neuropathic pain in the affected nerve, Bell palsy, and Ramsay Hunt syndrome, but also postherpetic neuralgia and fatal complications such as VZV encephalitis and stroke."

There was a study finding vzv increases risk of all sorts of things including cardiovascular disease. Was a big important study and the kind of thing that should have been in the news.