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A Possible Way to Measure Cognitive Fatigue?

Zebra

Senior Member
Messages
918
Location
Northern California
Hi, @Wishful - a very interesting article! Thank you for sharing.

I don't know much about glutamate, so I did some cursory reading. According to the Cleveland Clinic elevated levels of glutamate are implicated in CFS as well as the worst of the neurological and neuro-degenerative diseases, which is a bit alarming to me.

I'll include a copy and paste below, and a link to the full website here:

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/22839-glutamate#:

Too much glutamate in the brain can cause nerve cells to become overexcited. Overexcitement can lead to brain cell damage and/or death. In this case, glutamate is called an excitotoxin.

Having too much glutamate in the brain is associated with some conditions, including:
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,467
is a bit alarming to me.

I am noticing alot more glutamate sensitivity on my end....I had to really restrict some foods...but sometimes sugar is also in the high glutamate (Asian food, soy sauce glazes, etc) (that are good and get me to eat more vegetables.). Shitake's mushrooms got me recently, wow.
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,862
Location
Alberta
A study showing that a certain molecule in involved with some serious diseases does not necessarily meant that dietary intake of that is harmful. Measuring elevated levels of glutamate in brain cells might mean that the mechanisms for removing the glutamate created in those cells isn't functioning properly.

From Google:

"
What removes glutamate from brain?


Glutamate is removed from the synaptic cleft by several high-affinity glutamate transporters present in both glial cells and presynaptic terminals. Glial cells contain the enzyme glutamine synthetase, which converts glutamate into glutamine; glutamine is then transported out of the glial cells and into nerve terminals."

and
"
Does glutamate pass the BBB?


This explains studies that show that the BBB is impermeable to glutamate, even at high concentrations, except in a few small areas that have fenestrated capillaries (circumventricular organs).Jul 1, 2009"

I haven't checked to see why some people are sensitive to dietary glutamate, but it's certainly not true that glutamate is bad for everyone.
 

xploit316

Senior Member
Messages
159
I am noticing alot more glutamate sensitivity on my end....I had to really restrict some foods...but sometimes sugar is also in the high glutamate (Asian food, soy sauce glazes, etc) (that are good and get me to eat more vegetables.). Shitake's mushrooms got me recently, wow.

@Rufous McKinney I thought I was the only one who got a belly button haemorrhoid by those evil Shitake's. I am still not 100% sure whether its their glutamate, choline or beta glutan content that got me, could be all 3 as combination of different fiber and vitamins can give me different physical and neurological symptoms. Tough puzzle to crack.
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,467
I am still not 100% sure whether its their glutamate, choline or beta glutan content that got me, could be all 3 as combination of different fiber and vitamins can give me different physical and neurological symptoms. Tough puzzle to crack.

Could be all three. The aged foods like the cheeses on pizza are also a tad risky but that shiitake pizza really messed me up.

My husband got beta GLUCAN and I'm suspicious of that too. He also buys the mushroom stuff all mixed together after I said I can't take those all mixed together.
 

xploit316

Senior Member
Messages
159
Could be all three. The aged foods like the cheeses on pizza are also a tad risky but that shiitake pizza really messed me up.

My husband got beta GLUCAN and I'm suspicious of that too. He also buys the mushroom stuff all mixed together after I said I can't take those all mixed together.

Ya I got the haemoroid from button mushrooms too once and also from fried prawns, banana, store bought milk products, oyster sauce, fish sauce etc.

Supposedly body doesn't make certain enzymes needed to digest these foods because of genetic issues. I'm not sure how much I believe that theory since taking broad spectrum enzymes didn't do anything to solve my issues.

Do you get neurological issues from high glutamate foods?
 

hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
2,226
I get extreme crashes from very high glutamate foods (like Asian food with MSG). Lower glutamate foods (like tomatoes) also seem to give me some issues, but that can be hard to distinguish from histamine issues as well. I haven't revisited tomatoes in awhile, but last time I accidentally had MSG it crashed me for a week or two.
 

xploit316

Senior Member
Messages
159
@hapl808 ohh I forgot histamine too to add to my list, another battle to fight. Have you tried NMDA antagonists like magnesium or zinc to counter glutamate? Both give me low BP issues so I can't do them only from food and water.
 

hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
2,226
@hapl808 ohh I forgot histamine too to add to my list, another battle to fight. Have you tried NMDA antagonists like magnesium or zinc to counter glutamate? Both give me low BP issues so I can't do them only from food and water.

Yeah, tried them with mostly minimal benefits. Regular dosages of magnesium glycinate (50mg every hour IIRC), magnesium threonate, magnesium malate, etc. Some zinc supplements, theanine, NAC, methyl B, taurine, etc.
 
Messages
45
There are some genetic factors that determine how well you clear glutamate from synapses. Those who "naturally" have higher glutamate activity tend to be more intelligent but this also predisposes them to the negatives of high glutamate.

A major determinant of how well you clear glutamate from the synapse is energy production. You need ATP for the Na:K ATPase (more commonly known as sodium-potassium pump) in glutamate transporters to take up glutamate and the enzyme glutamine synthase that converts glutamate to glutamine also needs ATP. Also glucose seems to be particularly important, so perhaps a higher carb diet may be better for promoting glutamate homeostasis. Higher carb diet also increase T3 levels, which would improve ATP production.

So the many angles you can work on in regards to improving energy metabolism can all work to improve glutamate homeostasis. Examples including optimizing thyroid function, eating higher amount of carbs (and eating enough calories in general), improving insulin resistance, fixing nutritional deficiencies, improving stress levels, getting enough sleep... Many things can affect ATP production.

This article goes into it a little more for anyone interested:

https://mybiohack.com/blog/balancing-excitatory-amino-acid-transporter-activity
 
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