A community thermoregulation experiment

[HTester]

In another thread I asked if ME/CFS patients shiver when they feel cold. I asked this because shivering is a normal physiological response initiated (in healthy individuals) at a body temperature of about 36 degrees C (96.8 degrees F). This temperature is called the shivering threshold.

Can you help me do an experiment? It just requires a good thermometer.

I know many PWME are cold all the time, but what I want to know is:

What is your under-the-tongue temperature when you've just started shivering?

By "shivering" I mean that some of your muscles are contracting repeatedly with no voluntary action on your part. If you never shiver when cold, I want to know that too.

What we're trying to do here is measure the shivering threshold in PWME.

Our hypothesis is that your shivering threshold is at a lower temperature than the normal 36 C or 96.8 F. We don't care whether the hypothesis is true or false; we just want to know the answer.

One warning. If you are shivering so much that your teeth are chattering, please do not use a glass thermometer under your tongue. Measure under your armpit instead.

Measure your temperature as soon as possible after you start shivering, but measure it long enough to get an accurate reading. Thanks for considering a PR community experiment!

 

[Zebra]

I'd be happy to contribute! It's just a matter of remembering!

 

[WantedAlive]

Our hypothesis is that your shivering threshold is at a lower temperature than the normal 36 C

My temperature is frequently sub 36C (high 35's) in the last years and I don't shiver at that temperature. I haven't shivered since early onset. So this hypothesis sounds true to me, I had no idea one shivered at 36degC. And I'm afraid I'm too timid to test my shivering threshold, fortunately its summer here so I have an excuse.

 

[Judee]

I answered you on the other post. I'm not sure it's cold enough here yet for this to work for me. I can try sitting in a car with no coat and see but it may have to wait a few weeks till the outside temps drop some more.

Plus, like another poster said, I'll have to try and remember. I'll go put a post it note on my bathroom mirror. Hopefully that will work.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

noting the day I was shivering my temp was 98.0

the next day, not shivering it was 97.6

I will: collect data for you!..its not really winter yet..more shivering will come online I suspect.

 

[Murph]

Interesting question. I can't remember the last time I shivered.

I've definitely wondered about temperature regulation and me/cfs before. My PEM can be triggered by heat and especially by heat in combination with direct sunlight. I think there's a vasodilation aspect. I also suspect a role for failures in central control of homeostasis.

One theory is that sensitied microglia are prone to produce prostaglandins (which contribute to fever). The reason i like this theory is I've found paracetamol helpful in avoiding PEM and I believe it reduces microglia sensitisation.

I would like to collect this data for you, I will post here when I do.

edit: fwiw i rarely sweat much either! Nor do I get red in the face. I remember back when I was healthy, if I went for a run in the morning, my face would often be flushed til abut 4pm. I haven't had a healthy glow in my cheeks for years!

And I'm mild enough to play some gentle sport so I do have the opportunity to sweat, in theory. But I try to mostly do things in the cool of the evening. I seem to handle exercise much better after about 8pm.

 

[kangaSue]

I've definitely wondered about temperature regulation and me/cfs before. My PEM can be triggered by heat and especially by heat in combination with direct sunlight. I think there's a vasodilation aspect. I also suspect a role for failures in central control of homeostasis.

That sounds very much like autonomic neuropathy.

 

[jaybee00]

Temp now is 96.9 F and not shivering. Not a big shiverer unless I go swimming in cold water— less tolerant of cold water than others even before MECFS.

 

[Wishful]

I think I've shivered only a few times in the last 20 years. I shivered during the first few flare-ups of my ME (or type IV food sensitivity; not sure which came first). The last time was after about 6 hrs outside at -35C or so.

It just requires a good thermometer.

... and exposing yourself to uncomfortable chill.

 

[jaybee00]

Thread here

https://www.s4me.info/threads/a-community-thermoregulation-experiment.17934/#post-304242

 

[HTester]

... and exposing yourself to uncomfortable chill.

Actually, I'm not asking you to induce shivering. You can just wait for an occasion when you shiver and then measure your temperature.
We don't need the result soon. There is a lot more going on research-wise that will keep me busy.

But if you wait for a month and never shiver even though your temperature is well below 36 C (96.8 F) that would be worth reporting in this thread.

 

[Wishful]

You can just wait for an occasion when you shiver and then measure your temperature.

Okay, I'm not the shivery sort, so it may take a few years.

I tried checking my temperature immediately after being out in -18C for half an hour. My oral temperature was 34.8C ... and I was nowhere near feeling chilled, much less hypothermic. I'm guessing that oral temperature drops a lot more quickly than core temperature, so checking oral temperature soon after exposure to cold temperatures is going to be misleading.

 

[HTester]

I can't remember the last time I shivered.

Several PWME have responded like you. Maybe we should just ask, "When was the last time you shivered"?

 

[Pinkratzie7]

This is a very interesting question. When I get cold and shiver I get a deep intense bone and muscle pain. I assume the pain i get is a mast cell reaction. Does anyone else experience a similar reaction to shivering? Hopefully, I will remember to take my temp the next time it happens and report back!

 

[Wishful]

Maybe we should just ask, "When was the last time you shivered"?

I think the answers would be good for guessing what latitude people lived at.

 

[HTester]

I think the answers would be good for guessing what latitude people lived at.

Funny.
But not if the answers are something like, "five years ago."

 

[wabi-sabi]

Shivering now on a chilly morning at 98.2 digital oral thermometer

 

[bread.]

I think the answers would be good for guessing what latitude people lived at.

I am very severe, can not sit up for years by now, I start to shiver everytime I get washed with a HOT cloth in bed.

 

[HTester]

I am very severe, can not sit up for years by now, I start to shiver everytime I get washed with a HOT cloth in bed.

You might consider, as an experiment, asking for a warm towel to follow right behind the HOT washcloth. The evaporation that follows the hot wet cloth may be cooling you below your shivering threshold.

 

[HTester]

Shivering now on a chilly morning at 98.2 digital oral thermometer

Thanks for the datum. An afterthought: It might be valuable also to report whether you feel cold. Temperature and the sensation of feeling cold rely on different parts of the brain/body.