Zoe Norris Book - "Chronic Fatigue - A Mystery No More"

[Hell...Hath...No...Fury..]

@wastwater it made me laugh anyway

 

[Scarecrow]

This not the history of a person who has had severe ME for 15 years.

I don't think that's the same Zoe Norris. The age is all wrong. The LinkedIn Zoe was doing A levels 4 or 5 years ago. Typically A levels are taken at 17 or so. 'Our' Zoe is about 35.

 

[Snow Leopard]

On the contrary to the T&C on the site, it is perfectly legal (fair use & fair dealing exceptions to copyright law) to summarise the book as part of a book review. I'd be tempted, just to end the speculation in this thread, but $60 is very expensive for a short book.

re: her book title isnt even CFS, she refers to the illness as "chronic fatigue" so how much does she truely know about ME.

The title of this thread is not the title of the book...

There are other issues potentially discussed in a first aid course, such as low body temperature and its relationship to metabolism and the thyroid.

 

[Undisclosed]

I don't think that's the same Zoe Norris. The age is all wrong. The LinkedIn Zoe was doing A levels 4 or 5 years ago. Typically A levels are taken at 17 or so. 'Our' Zoe is about 35.

I don't know why you are saying that because the education and degrees she has matches the linkedIn profile. Unless there are two Zoe Norrises with the same degrees from the same Universities.

Even if I am mistaken, her secrecy and lack of transparency really bothers me.

 

[Revel]

@Kina, I believe @Scarecrow is correct. The 'Zoe Norris' who wrote the book did not become ill until she was 20, which would make her about 35 now. The 'Zoe Norris' you have highlighted would be in her early twenties, having only just completed her degree. Also, their degrees are different, the former studied biology and the latter geography/geology.

 

[Scarecrow]

I was just a bit concerned in case a prospective employer was googling young Zoe and got her confused with Mystery no More Zoe.

 

[Snow Leopard]

I don't know why you are saying that because the education and degrees she has matches the linkedIn profile. Unless there are two Zoe Norrises with the same degrees from the same Universities.

They are clearly different people, and I don't really see speculation as to 'whether she was really that ill' to be helpful.

I am frustrated that she makes grand claims, but then tries to force people to buy her book, but that shouldn't lead to speculation about her past.

 

[Tammy]

Wow, she cured an illness called Chronic Fatigue! Good for her!

So why would people with ME buy her book?

On her website she said that she was diagnosed with ME

 

[Snow Leopard]

On her website she said that she was diagnosed with ME

Yes, some people are confusing the title of this thread, with the title of her book...

 

[Hell...Hath...No...Fury..]

Yeah i was just editing my post right now when you posted yours thanks

 

[Tammy]

I'd feel better if she released her book thru a regular publisher and it had been reviewed. I was diagnosed w/out mitochondrial testing.[/QUOTE
By Tammy
From her blog: "I certaintly know there would be some who don't wish me to publish what I have written in the book. I knew there would be negativity and opposition....what I am publishing is not going to sit well with some. The cause in MY case is highly controversial and IF this is the same in all cases of M.E. or "CFS" it is a very, very big deal. I have published it anyway due to its importance. Because of this and the nature of the content this is why I have gone to great effort to self-publish the book and distribute it through my own website myself. This meant that at no point along the publishing process could the book be pulled, delayed or shelved to the point of making it impossible for me to publish once I had gone down their route. It was so important that it was published and available to sufferers"

 

[Tammy]

I am actually amazed that anyone would even contemplate buying her book. If I told everyone here that I had now cured ME/CFS on my own, and that you could be cured too, if only you would buy my book, what would you say?

Why would anyone believe that some unknown person could solve the mystery of ME/CFS on their own - by reading research articles - when those researchers who actually wrote the papers hasn't been able to? What a genius she must be! Perhaps someone will also cure cancer by sitting at home and reading PubMed.

From her blog: "By law I am not allowed to say this or any book or treatment will help anyone else and by law I cannot advise anyone to undertake or not undertake any particular test or treatment." @ adreno.......I'm perplexed with your second question about believing that some unknown person could solve the mystery of ME/CFS on their own by reading research articles............really? Maybe not the mystery as it relates to everyone who has this illness but certainly for themselves. Isn't that what most of us here are basically doing? Anyway..........it wasn't just research articles (of which their were many) that she used in her investigation.........include biochemistry knowledge, numerous lab tests.......which some she requested herself......because no other so called expert or specialist thought to order it. I don't think you are giving her enough credit.

 

[Tammy]

From a very brief look, her approach seems glib, immature and opportunistic, with several shaky premises underpinning it, namely:

• that she had the same illness as all other PWME
• that the results other PWME get from the tests she had will necessarily be identical to her results
• that the test results she feels were significant in her case were in fact significant in causing and/or perpetuating her illness
• that the treatments she attributes her "cure" to are what effected her "cure"

I could go on, but I won't. I sense the Dunning-Kruger Effect in operation here, viz. the "metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their ineptitude".

From her blog: "IF other ME/CFS sufferers have the same underlying biochemical cause that I had, I believe patients are going to need to pull together and take their own action themselves to get it investigated and treated correctly."

 

[SOC]

They are clearly different people, and I don't really see speculation as to 'whether she was really that ill' to be helpful.

I am frustrated that she makes grand claims, but then tries to force people to buy her book, but that shouldn't lead to speculation about her past.

Whether she was seriously ill is relevant when fraudulent, or even honestly mistaken, claims are under consideration. She is claiming that the treatment that "cured" her condition applies to all people with ME/CFS. It's reasonable to question whether her condition has any similarity to ME/CFS. Her background story does matter.

 

[Tammy]

I understand why members would be angry about her not revealing her findings. I get it..........although she does kind of voice her concerns about this. I too wish she could have shared even a glimpse and went ahead and wrote her book. I am curious though about some of the other negativity. Are members mad because 1. They really don't think she had ME/CFS. 2. Is the word "cured" tripping you up? 3. What else is making you so angry......besides her not revealing her story on-line.?

 

[Tammy]

[

Whether she was seriously ill is relevant when fraudulent, or even honestly mistaken, claims are under consideration. She is claiming that the treatment that "cured" her condition applies to all people with ME/CFS. It's reasonable to question whether her condition has any similarity to ME/CFS. Her background story does matter.

Where are you getting that she is making the claim that the treatment that "cured' her condition applies to all people with ME/CFS............did you read her blog? I will state again from her blog as I did three posts ago. From her blog: "IF other ME/CFS have the same underlying biochemical cause that I had, I believe patients are going to need to pull together and take their own action themselves to get it investigated and treated correctly."

 

[Aurator]

What else is making you so angry......besides her not revealing her story on-line.?

Personally I'm not angry. But imagine if someone said they'd found a cure for cystic fibrosis but they weren't prepared to tell the thousands of sufferers, many of them children, what the cure was unless they or their families first handed over a sum of money.

That is actually the better of two scenarios. The worse is the scenario in which you hand over your money and find the cure is no cure at all.

Is it not fair to say there's something distasteful and morally questionable in either of these situations?

 

[SOC]

I understand why members would be angry about her not revealing her findings. I get it..........although she does kind of voice her concerns about this. I too wish she could have shared even a glimpse and went ahead and wrote her book. I am curious though about some of the other negativity. Are members mad because 1. They really don't think she had ME/CFS. 2. Is the word "cured" tripping you up? 3. What else is making you so angry......besides her not revealing her story on-line.?

How about trying to get rich off sick people? She won't even be clear about what she's selling. Without providing any clear evidence that her treatment plan works, she wants desperate people to send her money in the hope there might be something useful. What is more despicable than playing on the hope of desperate people for personal gain?

Then there's the issue that some of "facts" she does dribble out are blatantly untrue:

..there is now a test for ME/CFS which shows why the body is not working and indicates treatment.

There is not a test for ME/CFS.

Add to that the arrogance of thinking she, a single individual with limited scientific training, knows vastly more than researchers who have been studying the illness for decades:

. . . based on my test results future researchers looking at the illness will be wasting time, effort and funding . . .

She plays the conspiracy theory card while bordering on insulting the rest of the patient population:

Of course there may be some who don’t wish those around them to be well. There may be some who fear they will not get the same result that I did.

She's brilliant and open-minded and the rest of us are weak-minded idiots who don't want people to get well or are so afraid that a new treatment won't work that we can't even bring ourselves to try it? Really?

Finally, the One True Cure shtick has been done to death by frauds for centuries. We really don't need to hear it again.

 

[Wildcat]

.

Zoe Norris denies that ME can be terminal. She is pretty hostile about patients/others who are realistic about the severity of their illness and their long term prognosis. In these paragraphs from her blog, she denies that ME is incurable or can be terminal; she bandies around the words "rumours" "myths" and "lying" . Its not clear from Zoe's Blog whether she means that she thinks its a lie to state that ME can be terminal, or if she thinks people are saying that its always terminal (which is clearly not true; its not always terminal, but I don't think anyone has suggested that), or if she's denying that ME can be terminal (which it can be and is therefore not a myth or a lie).

The following paragraphs are pretty sweeping and dismissive, even contemptuous:




http://zoenorrisrecovered.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/coming-back-to-mecfsand-running-away.html

“To be truthful I am disgusted that some are spreading the rumour that ME/CFS is incurable and doing this is truly dangerous. If you have ME/CFS ignore these people completely; they have their own personal negative reasons, or possibly an agenda, for doing this and it’s not going to help anyone recover to get on with active lives again. No-one knows if any particular person can or will be cured until the relevant correct tests and treatment are obtained. In my case these were not until I went for private medical tests by accredited laboratories.

Oh, and it is most definitely not a terminal disease, let’s put that myth straight too. I was appalled to see this being falsely spread around.

Of course there may be some who don’t wish those around them to be well. There may be some who fear they will not get the same result that I did. I can understand that, I took many chances along the way. I still took them though – if I hadn’t I wouldn’t be where I am today."

.

 

[Tammy]

Personally I'm not angry. But imagine if someone said they'd found a cure for cystic fibrosis but they weren't prepared to tell the thousands of sufferers, many of them children, what the cure was unless they or their families first handed over a sum of money.

That is actually the better of two scenarios. The worse is the scenario in which you hand over your money and find the cure is no cure at all.

Is it not fair to say there's something distasteful and morally questionable in either of these situations?

Like I said in my post......................I GET the part about not revealing..............I was asking about other things besides this.