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Your experiences with Melatonin

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by overtheedge, Apr 18, 2018.

  1. overtheedge

    overtheedge Senior Member

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    I'd like to hear from those of you who have spent some time using melatonin, did it work? did it continue to work? any side effects? what kind of dosage? and anything in general that might be useful to know about melatonin?

    yeah
     
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  2. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    I was originally put on 30mg of melatonin a day during my cancer treatment. I ramped up over a couple of weeks, and honestly the effect on sleep wasn't much different between 5mg and 30.

    It has antioxidant properties:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27500468/

    These days I take 3-5mg 20-30 minutes before bed. It helps me go to sleep but doesn't help me stay asleep (other things do that).
     
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  3. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    I never tried melatonin in my severe insomnia years mainly because I was so sensitive and reactive to medication and would get terrible side effects but I did eventually try melatonin years later when my ME improved to moderate.

    I started out taking 1 mg each night and found that I was able to go to sleep within a hour. It was very reliable for getting me off to sleep. I later went down to half a mg. I think why I did that was that I was running out and was trying to make the tablets last longer before having to get more prescribed. I found that a half a mg was doing the same job of getting me off to sleep within a hour also, so I cut down to half a mg.

    I stopped taking it a few years ago because I got really sick with lung problems and felt I had to stop all things at that time.

    All the best with it.
     
  4. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member

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    I take 3mg sublingual melatonine every 3 days. When I took it everyday, I gained weight. I take 2-3 different kinds of sleeping aids, never on consecutive days so I don’t develop any dependance.

    It does work for me about 80% of the time. Sometimes I’m just too wired. I tried to take it before having ME but I would wake up and feel like I was hit by a truck. I don’t know why it works now and not before.
     
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  5. overtheedge

    overtheedge Senior Member

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    @Dechi
    What are the other sleeping aids you take? any good?
     
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  6. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    Make your body naturally produce it with 2 simple steps

    AM Sunlight, between 6-10
    Blocking out blue and green light at night.
     
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  7. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    That doesn't work so well in Seattle...:rofl:

    Besides, some of us need more than our bodies can make....;)
     
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  8. BadBadBear

    BadBadBear Senior Member

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    Works well for me. 1 mg slow release every night. My sleep is the one thing that has vastly improved since I first got ill, I have a set of rituals to ensure sleep.☺ .Melatonin helps but is just a part.
     
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  9. ryan31337

    ryan31337 Senior Member

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    Took melatonin years ago, as per others it would make me drowsy but not keep me asleep - in fact I often wondered if I had a rebound type effect as it wore off because I would wake more often in the middle of the night when taking it.

    More recently I had polysomnography (sleep study) and was found to have really terrible quality sleep (likely POTS related). The neurologist prescribed Circadin, a slow-release formulation of melatonin, which works much better at keeping me asleep.

    Its effects have waned a little over 18 months but it still has some use so I continue taking it.
     
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  10. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    Does not work so well in UK either. That is why many of us can not get well. Environment over supplements.
     
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  11. PatJ

    PatJ Forum Support Assistant

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    It works for me and is one my indispensible sleep supplements. I take 1mg long acting melatonin every night plus other sleep supplements. It continues to work for me and I haven't noticed any side effects.

    According to Dr. Titelbaum a healthy human produces around 0.5mg of melatonin at night, so this is the dose he advises taking. Various researchers have found that too much melatonin can have negative effects on a body.

    I had the same problem but found that long acting melatonin keeps me asleep longer.

    You weren't addressing me but if you look in my signature you'll see a link to my blog post about many things I do to improve my sleep.
     
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  12. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member

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    Besides Melatonine, I take Benadryl (off the counter), Sublinox (subscription) and Zopiclone (subscription). I never take them on 2 consecutive days and never more than twice a week each. I take sublinox and zopiclone in alternance.

    If you’re really wired, then sublinox or zopiclone are the best choices. I take half of the the smallest dose available and it works for me. I am very sensitive to meds. It has worked in establishing a sleep routine for me.

    I take a different sleeping aid every night and I don’t have any dependence to anything. My insomnia is under control, except on more stressful periods. I’ve even started sleeping without any aid once in a while, after 12 months straight on them. My goal is to stop taking them except when too wired, within the next 12-18 months.
     
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  13. overtheedge

    overtheedge Senior Member

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    Just listened to a podcast interviewing the doctor who first used melatonin for sleep, a Dr. Richard Wurtman, I had just read the melatonin article on wikipedia and his name came up there too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melatonin#History at the bottom of this section on wikipedia

    anyway I recorded the significant points and figured I'd post em on here

    Interview with researcher who discovered what melatonin does sleep wise: Dr. Richard Wurtman https://smartdrugsmarts.com/episodes/episode-140-melatonin/

    Says the dose of melatonin should be around 0.3 mg, 1 mg or less is safe for use. 3mg is way too high and may lead the brain to become desensitized to melatonin which may be worse than this pill simply not working since endogenously produced melatonin is the bodies main sleep control chemical. I wonder how long desensitization would last if trigger, would really suck if it stuck around.

    Says that melatonin should be extended release, melatonin leaves the body quickly and what gets one to sleep often wont keep one asleep unless time release

    I want to say he said the way delayed release melatonin pills work is that they deliver one dose at first, enough to get you to sleep, then another full dose halfway through sleep. I think this means the pill should contain twice whatever your effective dose is, if 0.3 mg melatonin gets you to sleep then maybe get a 0.6 mg delayed release pill?

    Says that some melatonin pills that are advertised as delayed release aren’t really delayed release

    If someone takes melatonin continuously, every night in other words, they should be taking the lowest effective dose, higher doses may desensitize the brain to melatonin

    Melatonin is regulated through the level of light coming into the eyes, only the eyes not the skin. Evedence of this connection can be seen in blind people who have issues sleeping at the same time as the rest of the world as their eyes don’t sense light and therefore leaves the bodie’s melatonin out of whack

    Light suppresses melatonin production and therefore sleep

    Virtually any light will suppress melatonin, mentions that some people have tried to spend the hours before sleep in blue light, unfortunately the level of intensity of that blue light would have to be strong enough to suppress melatonin for it to be any good for reading/seeing/not being in the dark. So there is no special trick about light for handling melatonin. Dr Wurtman may have implied that the lower the intensity of the light, the less it suppresses melatonin, though, perhaps not. He mentions that bluelight emitting devices have been used effectively to clear biliruben from the blood but that that works through the skin

    The amounts of melatonin in foods, even those that are much higher in melatonin than the rest, are a negligible source of melatonin

    The doses of melatonin that would be needed for it to be a worthwhile antioxidant are just too high to be practical
     
  14. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member

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    @overtheedge Interesting. 0,3 mg seems really low but I’m going to try it when this bottle is finished. Why take 3mg if 1/10th is enough... I bet it’s even more expensive though !
     
  15. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    I think he's talking about normal healthy people, not cancer or ME/CFS patients. He is an 82 year old neurologist, not an oncologist or ME/CFS specialist.

    Personally, I was thrilled to use it to help fight my stage 3 cancer - I'm alive...;) Like I said, 30mg didn't affect my sleep any more than 3-5mg does now.

    Here are some uses of melatonin, with supporting research at the end of the article.
     
  16. overtheedge

    overtheedge Senior Member

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    Talked to my doctor last month, showed her a nutreval I had done some months before that indicated that all my b vitamins are borderline deficient with folate being fully deficient, no surprise since I'm heterozygous for the C677T MTHFR and I haven't been taking a multivitamin quite a few months for one reason or another, anyway, I mentioned how bad my sleep had been lately to her later and she mentioned it was probably because melatonin depends on different vitamins and minerals for its synthesis within the body so I've been looking the specifics of the chemical pathway up online.

    found this image in the following article https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402070/
    a few interesting things in this article besides, it mentions that zinc intake may increase melatonin and that omega 3’s, especially DHA, may increase melatonin also. At an earlier point in the article it states that vitamin b6, folate, and magnesium intake didn't increase melatonin levels but that it was unknown whether or not any of the volunteers had deficiencies of these or not, If i remember correctly the volunteers were healthy individuals.

    here is some more interesting stuff, this is from the nutreval interpretation guide:
    I'm heterozygous for the COMT V158M and H62H for which my doc advised me to take SAMe which I haven't been taking for the last number of months so maybe that is connected to why my sleep has deteriorated since I stopped taking those supplements, not that it was good but it was much better than it is now

    Figured I'd pass it along for those interested
     

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  17. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    Thanks @overtheedge - very interesting about the elevated 5-HIAA. :nerd:
     
  18. Crash Davis

    Crash Davis

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    I solved melatonin for me awhile back.

    There is a big issue with people overestimating what the dose should be since it is "only a supplement". People are taking 10 mgs of this stuff sometimes. No, no, no!

    There is some literature somewhere about these high doses but i don't have time to find it....the summary of what I had read was something of the effect that higher doses don't work as well as lower doses and higher doses are more likely to make you feel like crap the next day.

    This is how it should be:

    It should be in a liquid form.

    It should be 1mg with a dropper.

    I like this one. It is $9.24 US dollars and works very well.

    https://www.amazon.com/Source-Natur...68&sr=1-15&keywords=source naturals melatonin

    They also sell a larger 4oz bottle, but I posted the 2 oz because it is cheaper if somebody wants to give it a trial.

    30 minutes to 1 hr before taking melatonin, take a little dose (200mg-ish) of good quality Mg (glycinate, threonate) + and one capsule of B6 (either in P5P form or at least a decent brand of regular B6) in your system ahead of time to enhance (P5P is probably better I don't notice a difference between the two versions myself).

    A little L-theanine (maybe 200mg) here is optional with the Mg and B6 prior to dosing the melatonin.


    The dose of melatonin should be half a dropper full (500mcgs) about 20-30 minutes before you plan on sleeping.

    Keep the liquid in your mouth under your tongue for about 2 minutes without swallowing or drinking water during this time. It needs to absorb before you swallow or drink something.

    The first time you yawn or feel sleepy you need to go straight to bed.

    Keep the melatonin on the nightstand and if you didn't fall asleep with the first dose 20 minutes after the first yawn, then take an additional 500 mcg (half a dropper) under the tongue and don't get back out of bed until you are sure you've given it plenty of time to work or not work.
     
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  19. overtheedge

    overtheedge Senior Member

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    @Learner1 @Crash Davis @PatJ and any other users of melatonin
    Do you take melatonin every night or is there some alternation? Do you take breaks now and then or anything like that?
     
  20. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe

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    I use it every night in conjunction with 10mg amitriptyline and 7.5mg mirtazapine. It works wonders for tipping me over the edge. Without it, even the prescription drugs don't work very well.
     
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