Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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Why Does Drinking Electrolyte Water Help POTS?

Discussion in 'Problems Standing: Orthostatic Intolerance; POTS' started by Never Give Up, Jun 24, 2016.

  1. Never Give Up

    Never Give Up Collecting improvements, until there's a cure.

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    Shouldn't we all have fairly normal electrolyte and hydration levels?
     
  2. Sushi

    Sushi Moderation Resource Albuquerque

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    Many of us have low blood volume. Many also have trouble retaining water. Electrolytes help us to retain water and thus increase blood volume--according to my autonomic specialist.
     
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  3. Never Give Up

    Never Give Up Collecting improvements, until there's a cure.

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    That is what I have heard, too, but, it seems like that process would take time make a difference. My son and I(yes, I have POTS, too) feel the benefit in 10 to 20 minutes, which makes me suspect something else is at work.
     
  4. Sushi

    Sushi Moderation Resource Albuquerque

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    IV saline, which would be similar, has an immediate effect too.
     
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  5. Groggy Doggy

    Groggy Doggy Guest

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    yes, something else is up...but we have to wait for the researchers to figure it out.
     
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  6. Sushi

    Sushi Moderation Resource Albuquerque

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    It would be interesting to know how long it takes for the electrolyte water you drink to get into the blood stream. Anyone know?
     
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  7. Never Give Up

    Never Give Up Collecting improvements, until there's a cure.

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    That's a good point. Though, IV saline is a more direct route, doesn't have to work it's way into the blood stream like oral saline, the effects last longer too. I stil think something else must be going on.
     
  8. Sushi

    Sushi Moderation Resource Albuquerque

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    Must be. There have been a couple of times I had to crawl to the fridge to get to the Pedialite. I'd sit on the floor and drink it down and in a few minutes I'd feel much better.
     
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  9. Groggy Doggy

    Groggy Doggy Guest

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    Regarding the one electrolyte, sodium, here is my theory. Our bodies cell signaling process does not work correctly. Throughout the day, ideally when we are fatigued, our bodies are supposed to respond by making more sodium. But for a subtype of ME, the cells are not signalling properly, and fail to make the sodium needed. So what are symptoms of low sodium?
    • weakness.
    • fatigue or low energy.
    • headache.
    • nausea and vomiting.
    • muscle cramps or spasms.
    • confusion.
    • irritability.
    Another ME subtype is related to Calcium. Here again the cell signaling is at fault and it not responding.

    Another ME subtype is related to LDL cholesterol. Our brains are not getting enough LDL.

    But we are too many years behind in looking at ME as a cell metabolic disorder. It needs to be housed correctly at the NIH if we are to have hope in getting research funds to study it. ME needs to housed in NIDDK.

    http://www.niddk.nih.gov/about-nidd...sease/Pages/endocrine-metabolic-diseases.aspx

    "Examples of NIDDK-supported research efforts in these areas include:

    • Studies of environmental factors that may alter thyroid function.
    • Research building on discoveries about the specific effects of various cystic fibrosis-causing genetic mutations in order to develop therapies that counteract the disease at a molecular level.
    • Studies increasing our understanding of how cells sense and respond to available fuel and nutrient levels.
    • Experiments aiming to understand the molecular mechanisms underlying autoimmune disorders such Hashimoto’s thyroiditis and Graves disease.
    • Research to understand the role of parathyroid hormone in bone health and to identify the best treatment for hyperparathyroidism, a condition in which the parathyroid glands produce too much hormone."

    So meanwhile while US governement funded studies are investing only in ones with a ME hypothesis such as viral, immune, or gut bacteria.....gaining private funding will be an ongoing challenge to study alternative theories such as cell metabolism.

    I find it both sad and frustrating, but that's the reality right now. I feel privately funded studies will figure it out first.

    GD
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
  10. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Ive got no idea but can feel the positive affects of the water I drink in only 5-10 mins, its like its going straight into my system but then only issue is it doesnt stay there and it doesnt take long for me to then need to pee. I drink, 20 mins later I often then need to pee.

    Maybe cause our blood volume is so low it moves into our blood stream much quicker??
    .......

    and no, we can actually dehydrate with the POTS easily esp if you are like me and like pee your fluid quickly out.

    A hospital dr told me i was at risk of kidney damage due to after a POTS collapse, blood tests indicating I was dehydrated and that my kidneys were struggling due to this, so though I drink a lot, he told me I need to drink even more to prevent damage to my kidneys.
     
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  11. ryan31337

    ryan31337 Senior Member

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    Although not POTS specific, it could be that you are immediately boosting insufficient blood pressure by drinking a large quantity of water and in turn feeling an improvement from that. I've seen this described as water bolus therapy and is a 'sympathetically-mediated pressor response that is sustained for 1–2 hours'.

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/705183_9
    There's a good description complete with several references there.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2016
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  12. Living Dead

    Living Dead Senior Member

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    The intestines can absorb about 16 ml per minute, so 160 - 240 ml in 10 - 15 minutes, resp.

    However, if the stomach is full of food, the fluid will be stuck there for a while, and not be absorbed immediately. (I've read that this also applies if the drink has sugar in it, but I might also have read the opposite. It is something to think about anyway.)

    [​IMG]

    The hormone that inhibits urine production is called vasopressin (or antidiuretic hormone, AHD). Without it you would be producting 16 ml of urine every minute. So same as the capacity for absorbing fluid. Amazing, isn't it?

    This production of this hormone is supposed to be governed by blood volume. So low blood volume = create more ADH, to keep the water in the blood. High blood volume = stop making ADH, so the kidneys can eliminate the excess water.

    Because this hormone inhibits urine production (rather than encouraging it), an "error situation" arises when the blood volume increases very quickly (if you drank a lot on an empty stomach). In this situation your brain would "want" to produce more urine, but it already made ADH before you drank, and the ADH is still in the system. So the kidneys are underproducing compared to what your brain, which regulates ADH, would like.

    In this period your body will think it has too high blood volume (too much blood), but not being about to do anything about it immediately.

    After about 45 minutes (?), the ADH levels get down to what the brain wants, and the body increases urine production. Now the blood volume falls back to normal.

    So, if the mechanism is increasing blood volume, it seems only natural that it would take effect quickly, and stop working quickly as well.

    Drinking plain water is not likely to work as well because:
    1) The electrolyte levels go down, which can cause a problem in itself
    2) The brain would also reduce secretion of ADH in response to lower electrolyte levels (to eliminate excess water to return to optimal levels), thus the effect would wear off even more quickly.
    3) Is electrolyte water absorbed more quickly? It would make sense, if the electrolyte level was the same as in blood.
     
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  13. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    What is electrolyte water? Is it just a fancy name for a saline drink, which some doctors recommend for treating POTS?
     
  14. Sushi

    Sushi Moderation Resource Albuquerque

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    They have more than saline. Here is a good one:
    Pedialyte® Unflavored
    Pedialyte Unflavored helps prevent dehydration and quickly replaces fluids, zinc, and electrolytes lost during diarrhea and vomiting.

    Serving Size: 1.1 QT (1 L)
    Amount Per Serving % DV % RDI
    Characteristics
    Osmolality, mOsm/kg H2O: 250
    Minerals
    Sodium, mEq: 45
    Potassium, mEq: 20
    Chloride, mEq: 35
    Zinc, mg: 7.8
     
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  15. Never Give Up

    Never Give Up Collecting improvements, until there's a cure.

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    Yes. There are all kinds of brands of mixes one can put in ones water, Electo-mix, Nuun, etc. I was very surprised at the boost they offer.
     
  16. Never Give Up

    Never Give Up Collecting improvements, until there's a cure.

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    What Sushi said.
     
  17. Groggy Doggy

    Groggy Doggy Guest

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    where is the best place to buy them? Is there one brand that seems to work better for ME?
     
  18. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    So Pedialyte is basically water with added sodium, potassium and a bit of zinc.

    Wikipedia says that Pedialyte contains 1,035 mg sodium per liter, and 780 mg potassium per liter.

    Sodium chloride is around 39% sodium, so if you added 2.6 grams of salt to a liter of water, you would get the same sodium level as is found in Pedialyte.

    And if you buy one of those low sodium salts like LoSalt which contains mostly potassium chloride, or buy some potassium chloride online, then since potassium chloride is around 52% potassium, adding 1.5 grams of potassium chloride to your liter of water will give you the same potassium level as Pedialyte.



    Alfred Blasi in Spain reckoned he cured his fibromyalgia with a drink he devised containing a certain ratio of electrolytes: sodium 1480 mg per liter, potassium 400 mg per liter, calcium 30 mg per liter, and magnesium 30 mg per liter. Ref: 1

    Unfortunately researchers in Spain could not reproduce his results with other fibromyalgia patients.

    He sells electrolyte sachets of a product called Recuperat-Ion which you add to water to provide these ratios of electrolytes. But again you can more cheaply make you own sachets, simply by knowing that sodium chloride is 39% sodium, and potassium chloride is 52% potassium.
     
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  19. Groggy Doggy

    Groggy Doggy Guest

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    Thanks @Hip!

    You are always so helpful and quick to volunteer.

    Is Hip an abbreviation?

    GD :dog:
     
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  20. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Sort of: when I set up my first ME/CFS blog, and had to choose a username, the first name that came into my head was Hippocrates, the father of medicine. I liked this name because I thought paying tribute to him might be a good talisman.

    Then after a while I got feed up with tying in such a long username, so I just shortened it to "Hip," and have used that ever since.


    Perhaps it might be interesting to start a thread asking members how they arrived at their usernames.
     
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