What tests do you guys recommend? Any uncommon tests you've found to be valuable

[overtheedge]

@Learner1

Did your immunoglobulin testing show anything abnormal and what steps did you take to change it?

The cell trend one is for antibodies correct?

What kind of infections would you recommend testing for and how did you combat the ones you found?


I found the GI effects stool test to be worthwhile as well, had two of them done so far. It showed low chymotrypsin the first time which is supposed to indicate need for pancreatic enzymes or other digestive aids so I increased the number of enzymes I take with meals and the chymotrypsin level normalized. Been taking butyrate since my levels were low and beta glucan since beta glucuronidase is low, I clearly feel better after taking beta glucan, don't know about butyrate, tested it with the antimicrobials my doctor gave me for the pathogens that showed up on the GI effects test so I don't know what specifically made me feel good during that time and have yet to retest butyrate to see, even so, It might be doing something without showing obvious effects.


Haven't noticed any change in my condition from pancreatic enzymes but I keep taking em in hopes that it is worthwhile for to correct that level of chymotryptisn though I should point out that in the past it was either pancreatic enzymes or betaine hcl that corrected some severe chronic constipation that I had, so ,for some, the enzymes may well show powerful effects. I swear though, no matter how many gut tests I get showing infections, either bacterial or fungal, wiping them out just ends up with different kinds of infections showing up. How has gut testing treated you?


I looked at the DUTCH test, what is the significance of the metabolites of Estrogen and Androgen, I've had all the rest of the things the DUTCH tests for tested for individually.


Iron panel? is that just ferratin or are there others?


I haven't heard of ADH testing, what does it show and how did you deal with the results?

 

[Learner1]

@Learner1
Did your immunoglobulin testing show anything abnormal and what steps did you take to change it?

Yes, I have low total IgG and low IgG1 and 3 subclasses. At first, total IgG was low normal (then went below rsnge), but testing the subclasses was key as 1 and 3 are needed to fight viral/bacterial infections and they were low while 2 and 4 were normal.

Either low total IgG or low IgG subclasses plus a successful pneumococcal vaccine challenge are needed for my insurance to approve IVIG treatment. IVIG can be used to replace, or, in the case of autoimmunity, a higher dose is used, typically every 3-4 weeks over many months.

The cell trend one is for antibodies correct?

Yes. VERY helpful.

What kind of infections would you recommend testing for and how did you combat the ones you found?

Depends on where you live and where you've travelled.

But Lyme and coinfections, HSV1 & 2, zoster, cytomegalovirus, Epstein Barr, HHV6, chlamydia pneumoniae, mycoplasma pneumoniae, syphilis, hepatitis B/C are the ones my docs have tested. If I lived elsewhere, Cocksackie, west Nile, Ross river virus... Have all the types of titers run and PCR - if your immune system is dysfunctional, it may not be giving a robust reaction and it may be tricky to disgnose

I was on high dose vitamin C & botanicals - samento, berberine, artesunate, artemisinin for 18 months. They helped some, but were not enough. Then, I tried oral azithromycin and rifampin, which messed up my gut, but didn't faze the chlamydia (which they're the best drugs for).

My doctor and I were trying to avoid drugs which might further damage to my mitochondria. However, the significance of immune dysfunction and the havoc the infections were causing pushed us to go for bigger guns.

I recently switched to valgancyclovir, IV doxycycline/azithromycin/rifampin and will be starting IVIG soon. I feel less sick, lymph nodes improved, but still fatigued and titers haven't moved much, but EBV has improved.

I found the GI effects stool test to be worthwhile as well, had two of them done so far. It showed low chymotrypsin the first time which is supposed to indicate need for pancreatic enzymes or other digestive aids so I increased the number of enzymes I take with meals and the chymotrypsin level normalized. Been taking butyrate since my levels were low and beta glucan since beta glucuronidase is low, I clearly feel better after taking beta glucan, don't know about butyrate, tested it with the antimicrobials my doctor gave me for the pathogens that showed up on the GI effects test so I don't know what specifically made me feel good during that time and have yet to retest butyrate to see, even so, It might be doing something without showing obvious effects.

Haven't noticed any change in my condition from pancreatic enzymes but I keep taking em in hopes that it is worthwhile for to correct that level of chymotryptisn though I should point out that in the past it was either pancreatic enzymes or betaine hcl that corrected some severe chronic constipation that I had, so ,for some, the enzymes may well show powerful effects. I swear though, no matter how many gut tests I get showing infections, either bacterial or fungal, wiping them out just ends up with different kinds of infections showing up. How has gut testing treated you?

Helpful as a regular tool. In 9 years if gut testing with my family, we've found a compromised gut is a breeding ground for pathogens that wouldn't take hold in other people. We've seen roundworm, pinworms, and other parasites, in addition to candida and c. diff. My CFS doc says up to 80% of his patients have SIBO.

Pancreatic enzymes have many uses. In addition to the obvious benefits, they have been shown to fight cancer, important to me as a cancer survivor.

I looked at the DUTCH test, what is the significance of the metabolites of Estrogen and Androgen, I've had all the rest of the things the DUTCH tests for tested for individually.

The wrong sex hormone balance can promote prostate and female cancers.

The rest runs circles around all the LabCorp tests I've had and been the key to balancing hormones, including pregnenolone, DHEA, cortisol, and melatonin.

Iron panel? is that just ferratin or are there others?

TIBC, UIBC, iron sat and serum iron.

Ferritin is an acute phase reactant and can be elevated for other reasons, like infections (!) and toxicity.

I haven't heard of ADH testing, what does it show and how did you deal with the results?

Antudiuretic hormone. My CFS doc did it and commented "ah, this shows your pituitary isn't working, and why your TSH is on the floor." As all the regular docs I'd seen were unhappy about my taking T3/T4 with a TSH of .006, it helps explain this dichotomy to them.

Means I need hormone help...

 

[Stretched]

Where are you guys getting these highly specific tests done: general docs, specialized docs, outside private labs? If labs, which are preferred?
Thanks.

 

[Learner1]

I've had them done by my naturopathic doctor and a CFS specialist, but any doctor can order many of them if you know what to ask for and convince them.

Many are from standard labs like LabCorp and Quest Diagnostics, the others have names of labs with the tests. Some labs, like Genova Diagnostics, Doctors Data, Cell Trend, DUTCH, require doctors to set up a relationship and have special instructions for specimen collection and mailing. Always do the pre-pay, if offered, its cheapest.

 

[overtheedge]

Tests I've been helped by


MTHFR DNA analysis done by labcorp

tested C677T and A1298C, found a single mutation of C677t which pointed to possible high levels of homocysteine which was confirmed by testing


Homocysteine done by quest, was elevated as stated above, after adding in methylation supplements: SAMe, Methylfolate, B12, P5P, R5P, and TMG the level normalized over the course of a number of months.


Vitamin D done by labcorp, quest, and others, got low levels a lot of the time


Testosterone, free and total, done by labcorp and quest, have had low levels, taking supplements has lead to normalization of levels as well as increased libido and possibly increased energy. Levels were corrected by taking a combination herbal supplement, never tried hormones or anything


urine organic acid test, called Organix profile, by Designs for Health which I'm not even sure is still an active thing but there are still organic acid tests around. this test determined I had imbalanced omega levels. Omega supplements helped my energy levels in a very overt way for a week or more then stopped but I still take them figuring they are probably doing something even if I'm not feeling it. This test also came up with high levels of sulfate which it considered to indicate a need for glutathione and/or NAC, never have found any connection between sulfate levels and those two in my readings but a recent test of glutathione came up low so it may have been on to something but the tests were quite a number of years apart so it's hard to say. If anyone has any info on the significance of sulfate levels I would be glad to hear it


Neurotransmitter test I had done through harmasan labs showed low levels of serotonin, subsequent supplementation with 5-HTP has had me feeling good so I think the test was onto something, never did a follow up though as the test was around $500. Also had low GABA and epinephrine but supplementing them never made any difference


Plasma Zinc, done by quest, always low unless supplementing


With the exception of the urine organic acid test all the tests have been run in the past year and a half and I have been feeling better between then and now after having felt steadily bad for years before that, correcting these labs might well be responsible for the improvement, hard to say.

 

[Learner1]

This test also came up with high levels of sulfate which it considered to indicate a need for glutathione and/or NAC, never have found any connection between sulfate levels and those two in my readings but a recent test of glutathione came up low so it may have been on to something but the tests were quite a number of years apart so it's hard to say. If anyone has any info on the significance of sulfate levels I would be glad to hear it

You might be interested in this:

http://www.beyondmthfr.com/side-high-oxalates-problems-sulfate-b6-gut-methylation/

There are a couple of further links at the bottom of the page. It's a little wordy, but worth learning about.

 

[overtheedge]

Thank you, I'll have to get my sulfate checked again, hopefully I'll be able to find a standalone urine test for sulfate, urine organic acid testing is expensive, though, it might be worth a full retest of that sort anyway especially considering I've had great response from things aimed at improving mitochondria like ribose, coq10, and carnitine.

I have tried just about all the supplements the doctor you linked to suggests for correcting sulfate/oxylate though without noticing any changes except for the NAC which worked wonderfully for the better part of a month and then unfortunately stopped showing effects completely but I haven't tried any diet changes that would affect sulfate levels

I went through my notes and found some info on sulfate for those of you who are interested

Rich Van Konynenberg
The methylation cycle regulates sulfur use by the body. The thing that causes chronic fatigue syndrome to be chronic, and keeps people ill for years and years, is this interaction between glutathione, vitamin B12, and the methylation cycle. When glutathione goes too low, the effect on vitamin B12 slows down the methylation cycle too much. The sulfur metabolites are then dumped into the transsulfuration pathway (which is connected to the methylation cycle) too much, are oxidized to form cystine, pass through hydrogen sulfide, and are eventually converted to thiosulfate and sulfate and are excreted in the urine. This lowers the production of glutathione, which requires cysteine rather than cystine, and now there is a vicious circle mechanism that preserves this malfunction and keeps you sick.

From wikipedia article on NAC
Other uses include sulfate repletion in conditions, such as autism, where cysteine and related sulfur amino acids may be depleted.

From hair test interpretations by andy cutler:
In Cu toxicity it is a good idea to check cysteine, sulfate, and other things that often are affected by the heavy metals and use appropriate interventions based on test results.

Here cutler is speaking about calcium levels in hair tests
Elevated Calcium (Ca) typically indicates Ca wasting and low levels. Elevated sulfate is an uncommon cause for excessive excretion of Ca and hence low body stores which might lead to osteoporosis. Sulfate is not tested for in hair, it can be tested for in blood or in urine. Vitamin K is believed to help regulate Ca so supplementing Vitamin k may help if Ca is elevated. If Ca is either high or very low take Ca supplements, Vitamin D, Mg, and boron; there are many combination products containing all of these. try to get the Ca in the citrate, malate, or amino acid forms not oxide or carbonate. if there is a dramatic response to supplementation then plasma sulfate should be checked as this can cause Ca wasting. People with elevated plasma sulfate often feel great subjective improvement when using the feingold diet restrictions on phenolic and salicylate compounds.


Cutler also rights that high calcium on hair tests can mean other things, especially if magnesium, potassium, and/or sodium are abnormal, primarily that they can indicate endocrine imbalances, other doctors who deal with hair tests say the same thing, I can neither confirm or deny it.


From amalgam illness by andy cutler

This section is on phase two liver pathways

How to increase phase two pathways: -Glutathione Conjugation: take 4 parts NAC to 2 parts glutamine or glutamate to 1 part glycine between meals. - Sulfation: increase sulfate availability via supplementation of sulfate and molybdenum. -Glucuronidation: reduce insulin resistance with chromium, increase thyroid levels, reduce inflammation. - Glycination and taurine conjugation: supplement glycine or taurine. -Methylation: supplement methyl donors such as TMG, choline, lecithin, SAMe, (methionine not recommended due to homocysteine formation and the need to restrict sulfer foods with some individuals) and to mobilize the methyl groups vit b12 and folate


I know there are some lab tests that can be run to check phase two liver pathways, does anyone have experience with or info on such tests


http://www.cfsn.com/sulph.html In healthy conditions the liver converts dietary L-cysteine into glutathione, taurine, sulfate, cystine, and allows a tolerated amount of unconverted L-cysteine to circulate in blood for direct uptake by body cells and organs.


http://www.tvernonlac.com/copper-toxicity.html
Homocysteine will be converted to cysteine, taurine or used as a source of sulfate to promote bile formation and heavy metal excretion. Cysteine is used in the formation of metallothionein and of glutathione, the most powerful antioxidant and an essential substance for heavy metal detoxification.


https://metabolichealing.com/metabolic-gateways-cbs-gene-mutations-glutathione/

Based upon recent observations, CBS pathway "up-regulations" will result in a higher production of ammonia, urinary sulfates, as well as decreases in Glutathione (GSH) synthesis, and/or possibly imbalances in GSH's redox (reduction/oxidation) ratio.

This is a potentially catastophic scenario, because methyl groups are essential for other methylation reactions at other critical junctions. Not only would someone with a CBS up-regulation be losing methyl groups, as well as the primary antioxidant defense in every cell (glutathione), any additional methyl groups from diet or supplementation could cause a potential surge in CBS up-regulations. The result of this situation is a potential toxic overload of many substances, such as ammonia, sulfite, sulfate and hydrogen sulfide, and whatever else that comes along for the ride.


Encyclopedia of natural medicine

Sulfation is the conjugation of toxins with sulfur containing compounds. Sulfation, like the other phase 2 detoxification systems, results in decreased toxicity and increased water solubility of toxins, making it easier for them to be excreted in the urine or sometimes in the bile. Sulfation is also used to detoxify some normal body chemicals and is the main way we eliminates steroid hormones (such as estrogen) and thyroid hormones so that they don't build up to damaging levels. Sense sulfation is the primary path for the elimination neurotransmitters, dysfunctions in the system can contribute to the development of some nervous system disorders. For sulfation to work correctly there needs to be adequate amounts of methionine and cysteine in the diet. Sulfation is also reduced by excessive levels of molybdenum or vitamin B6 (over about 100 mg per day). In another case, sulfation can be increased by supplemental sulfate, extra amounts of sulfur containing foods in the diet, and the amino acids taurine and glutathione. Another key nutrient is the trace mineral molybdenum, which is required for most of the enzymes involved in sulfur metabolism. To ensure that sulfation is working adequately, consume adequate amounts of sulfur containing foods, such as whey protein, eggs, red peppers, garlic, onions, broccoli, and brussels sprouts. P 123





Transferring my notes to a digital format has really helped out, I started out writing notes with a pen from physical books, then started dictating notes from physical books, now I usually just buy ebooks when the books are available in that format and copy and paste what I want, it has been far faster for me this way, kindle format works well too after getting the app to read the files on PC though it is a bit more of a hassle than regular ebooks. Having digital notes makes it so much easier to find stuff, move stuff around, create collections and lists such as lists of tests or supplements to try or things to discuss with a doctor.

Cheers dudes

 

[overtheedge]

Was hoping to get this thread going again, still interested in the tests people here have found to be helpful