Review: 'Through the Shadowlands’ describes Julie Rehmeyer's ME/CFS Odyssey
I should note at the outset that this review is based on an audio version of the galleys and the epilogue from the finished work. Julie Rehmeyer sent me the final version as a PDF, but for some reason my text to voice software (Kurzweil) had issues with it. I understand that it is...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

What could my reaction to testosterone mean?

Discussion in 'Hormones' started by lift, Feb 26, 2015.

  1. lift

    lift

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    24
    This is a brief history of my experience with testosterone.

    2002: Took injectable 225-350mg per week for 5 weeks for body building purposes. Had a typical reaction that any bodybuilder would have to it. Gained muscle, no negative effect on mood other than agression. It may have increased my blood pressure as I recall feeling a little spacey after a theme park ride. Also towards the end of the cycle i noticed some prostate pain with urinating(this went away immediately post cycle)

    2003: Took xanax for 1 year, developed tolerence, side effects and withdrawal. This was the start of my chronic fatigue.

    2005: After testing low on Free T but normal total T, endo prescribed testosterone. I injected 125mg and experienced severe depression/anxiety not long after the shot and the feelings lasted a week. I felt like I was in hell. I put it down to after effects of benzo withdrawal.

    Yesterday: Now total T is on the low wend of range so GP gave me testogel samples. I took a 50mg satchet(yielding approx 5mg of testosterone). No immediate feelings but started feeling worse several hours later and today felt terrible. Anxiety, depression, spaced out. I actually didnt think it was from the testogel since it was just one dose of a small amount(i thought it was more likely the amoxcillin i stopped taking a couple of days ago for a dental infection) but i found other people who have had a similar reaction from one or a few doses of testogel. See this thread: http://www.allthingsmale.com/community/threads/anxiety-from-androgel.4573/

    I cant help but feel whatever testosterone is doing I need it to do the opposite to improve. Some of the theories on that thread suggested it might be converting to estrogen or it might be suppressing cortisol. Adrenal fatigue?
     
  2. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes:
    814
    You could have high estrogen and need an aromatase inhibitor.

    Likewise, you could be supressing your own HPT axis, and only using a small dose, keeping your total T even lower. T-therapy supresses LH and FSH unless you use HCG.
     
    Frosty, August59 and heapsreal like this.
  3. lift

    lift

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    24
    supressing HPTA off a single 5mg dose? come on....It normally takes a couple weeks of a high dose.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015
  4. Beyond

    Beyond Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!

    Messages:
    1,122
    Likes:
    780
    Murcia, Spain
    Sorry to derail, but are you saying Xanax started your illness? I knew benzos are very evil but this is pretty heavy. I went recently to a doc for the depression I have because of being chronically ill and he wanted to give me a benzo and a SSRI, wow I thought just about the worst possible things he could prescribe! Way to finish me off completely lol
     
  5. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes:
    814
    I mean if his HPTA is already supressed, adding in more exogenous testosterone will supress it further and with an insufficient amount of T.
     
  6. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes:
    814

    I think there are triggers that everyone has to that trigger their flavor of autoimmune or CFS or virus reactivation, but the trigger is probably a form of stress.
     
    August59 and Beyond like this.
  7. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,375
    Likes:
    1,230
    Ventura, CA
    If you're body is fighting off an infection then it won't be producing as much testosterone right now, likewise certain degrees of inflammation and issues with per fusion can dysregulate hormone production a bit. I am just surprised he is prescribing testosterone so quickly. Isn't the rule of thumb that once you take it you are on it for life? Usually if it's by means of hormone replacement therapy anyways. I know body builders use it in a different type of fashion.
     
  8. lift

    lift

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    24
    Well he's not prescribing it quickly, I've had low total T come back every time over several months. That along with all my symptoms. Initially I wanted to wait till my dental infection was sorted, to see how it effected my T levels, hypertension and general feeling. But since thats another month away I decided to give it a short trial.

    I can only assume it was aromatization, as it unlikely it was directed related to increase in serum T or shut down of HPTA. I thought I would add that I feel much better today so the reaction only lasted a day.
     
  9. lift

    lift

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    24
    I say run for the hills! I used to be a member of the benzo withdrawal forums so I know CFS is a common problem in benzo use and withdrawal.
     
    Beyond likes this.
  10. gingercakes

    gingercakes

    Messages:
    4
    Likes:
    2
    You definitely need to get a full endocrine panel. Total test, bioavailable, estradiol, LH, and FSH. If I was a betting man, I'd say you've got high estradiol. If your doctor wants to run total estrogen instead of estradiol, do not do this. Total estrogen is a worthless number. Estradiol is the important hormone to get checked here. I can attest to how horrible high estradiol feels. I took a single dose of clomid and my estrogen shot through the roof. Anxiety, depression, fatigue etc. A year and a half later my estradiol and test levels are both within normal range, but for some reason I still feel every symptom I did when the high estrogen started. My doctors just think I have depression, which is a bunch of crap. My symptoms instead match CFS.
     
    Frosty and August59 like this.
  11. lift

    lift

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    24
    I'll have to dig up my tests, I cant remember if it was total estrogen or estradiol. The two tests i had came back 120 and 133(<150). So it seems to be in the high end. I couldnt find much information on ideal levels for men, except one thread on a bodybuilding forum where some guy said you would want it around 60ish. My doctor doesnt think my levels are outrageously high. But hey if 60 is ideal, then i am still double whats optimal.

    I'm guessing I have a high amount of armotizing enyzmes(i wonder if this can be tested?). I have high body fat + man boobs. I've had limited success with DIM and calcium D glucarate, although I have not really trialled them too long.

    BTW, was the clomid the start of your problems? Or did you already have chronic fatigue prior? How did you get your estradiol down? Meds or supps?
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
  12. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes:
    814

    Have you checked for autoimmune conditions? My theory is that clomid can trigger autoimmune conditions if you are susceptible.
     
  13. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes:
    814
    High cortisol can also make you estrogen dominant. By shunting progesterone away to cortisol, estrogen becomes out of balance.
     
  14. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    675
    Likes:
    306
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Atleast according to what LEF says, more ideal levels for estradiol in males should be around 25.0
     
  15. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes:
    814

    I think this depends on the reference range. Their reference range seems to be much higher.
     
  16. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    675
    Likes:
    306
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Last time I had blood tests, it was with LEF. Their range is 7.6 - 42.6 pg/mL
     
  17. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes:
    814
    "It is a well-documented fact that sex hormones are implicated in the immune response and that androgens and estrogens modulate susceptibility and progression of autoimmune rheumatic diseases. Estrogens are considered to stimulate cell proliferation and humoral immune responses while androgens exert suppressive effects on both humoral and cellular immune responses. Autoimmune diseases are common in females, especially during the generative period, the most representative of estrogen-related autoimmune diseases being systemic lupus erythematosus. Estrogens and androgens are involved in the pathogenesis of the disease; both exogenous and endogenous estrogens are strong stimulators of cytokine production and disease activity. Some physiological conditions, as well as some drugs and chronic stress, can modulate hormone levels. Low levels of gonadal androgens have been detected in body fluids of both male and female rheumatoid arthritis patients, supporting the possibility of the pathogenic role for decreased androgen levels. Views on hormone replacement therapy or hormonal contraception in rheumatic diseases have been modified and in most rheumatic diseases, including rheumatoid arthritis, hormones are not prohibited. There are still controversies regarding systemic lupus; the new standpoint being that hormonal contraception is not contraindicated in women with inactive or stable active SLE, except for those with positive antiphospholipid antibodies."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25509832
     
  18. gingercakes

    gingercakes

    Messages:
    4
    Likes:
    2
    Hmm. That sounds like a total estrogen number. Estradiol (also known as E2) typically has a range of something like 10 - 50, or 7- 46 etc. For example, my estradiol was 108 pg/dL at one point with a range of 10 - 52 ng/dL.

    My problems didn't begin with the clomid/estradiol, but got significantly worse. Initially, I began to experience severe muscle fatigue and pain. I used to lift regularly, but nothing extreme. I got sick and had a couple of unrelated injuries over a summer and took some time off to recover. I went back in the gym once the summer was over and slowly tried working my way back up to the previous weights. I got about half way back up and started having serious muscle shakes and pain. I just could not recover from exercising no matter how much rest I got, food I ate, or supplements I took. I went to doctor after doctor and they pretty much accused me of trying to overdo it or not sleep/eat enough and so on after none of the tests that were run came back with anything definitive. As a last ditch effort I tried self-medicating, which only made matters worse. Today I can barely bench half of what I could before, can no longer bend my knees past about 75 degrees, and when I do exercise I have to limit myself to once or twice a week and no more than 15 total reps each workout. I have lost significant muscle mass, gotten much weaker, and it seems to be progressive in that even as I reduce the amount of weight I lift, I get more and more fatigued/have muscle pain.
     
  19. gingercakes

    gingercakes

    Messages:
    4
    Likes:
    2
    Interesting. I have not. Or at least, I haven't since the estrogen number shot up. I had a few things checked previously, perhaps those values may have changed.
     
  20. lift

    lift

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    24
    Actually it was oestradial that was tested. 133 (<150). Here are some other results i've had.

    LH 4 (3-20)
    FSH 11 (3-20)
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page