Well here's a treat: Two videos of Ms Crawley, leading ME researcher, (!) delivering her TEDx talk

[Countrygirl]

I don't know what that means. Feel free to use it. I downloaded it off the internet. Or do you need me to upload it somewhere? Sorry I am so ignorant about technology.

Me too @boombachi . I was hoping you were less ignorant about techie matters than me.

As you were then.

 

[Countrygirl]

Her entire theme is based on her grandfather - "the Right thing to Do". The way she builds up her storyline is a psychological method of sculpting the audiences views and opinions. By the time she gets to the accusation part, she has built up an image of a superwoman who against all evils, will fight and prevail - because it is the right thing to do.

Of course, it's all a distortion and based on a skewing of facts, but the audience doesn't know that. Not knowing the other side of the story, how can the audience not sympathize with her. Regardless of all the abuse she says she has been a victim of - she still prevails because ...children.

For those who know the facts though, she is a pathetic manipulator.

I thought, from her point of view, that her speech was better crafted and more
manipulative than usual and as I listened to it, I wondered if it had been professionally written for her. It was quite clever and effective and would easily evoke sympathetic emotional responses from an audience who were ignorant of the truth.

 

[Mithriel]

In her book "The Sociopath Next Door" Martha Stout says that a psychopath she interviewed said that he liked to evoke pity in normal people as their judgement went right out the window once they felt that.

 

[TreePerson]

In her book "The Sociopath Next Door" Martha Stout says that a psychopath she interviewed said that he liked to evoke pity in normal people as their judgement went right out the window once they felt that.

The question is – is it deliberate or unconscious? My feeling with her is it's probably the second. I think it's more like narcissism. That her need to manipulate and play the victim is a deep and unconscious device probably learnt early to protect a very fragile ego.

My understanding is that narcissists are quite simply unable to hear criticism, their protective devices won't allow it. Which is why trying to present the other side of an argument to them leaves you feeling as though you're beating your head against a brick wall.

I think someone said in another thread that it's inappropriate to question someone's mental health but it's almost impossible not to. @ChrisD said she freaks him out and that's how I feel. There is something seriously disturbing about listening to someone lie so easily
and manipulate a narrative to present a version of reality is that so far from the truth. It is the stuff of horror movies.

 

[Deepwater]

Dr. Crawley recalls her traumatic childhood:

What did Dr. Crawley learn? “As a grownup, I’ve had to reconcile that, and I’ve had to forgive. And I think it’s probably a good thing that I don’t scare easily. But if I could, I would take away those experiences of my childhood because I really believe that children shouldn’t be forced to be brave.”

I'm sticking my neck out here.
In a typhoon? And all she remembers is lying calmly on the seabed looking up? How did they rescue her? Sounds more like a swimming pool drama. Perhaps I'm being overly churlish, but I nearly drowned in a rip tide just a few yards from shore when I was twelve, and although I accept it was a different situation the difference between that experience and what Dr Crawley describes strikes me as weird. This is from an article on drowning:

"Upon submersion, the victim holds his breath until forced to inhale. He gulps
water. The water induces spasms of the larynx, which closes of the trachea to
protect the lungs. Little water enters the lungs. With the trachea blocked by
laryngospasms, no fresh air enters the lungs and the supply of oxygen begins to
fail. Lack of Oxygen, anoxia, affects the brain within 30 seconds the
laryngospasms begin to weaken with imminent brain failure.
The victim then inhales again, this time aspirating water into the lungs before a
fresh spasm closes the trachea again but for a shorter duration. With each
successive inhalation, more water is aspirated; anoxia increases, and
laryngospasm duration decreases until they are finally abolished and the lungs
are filled with water.
If drowning reaches this point, the chance of resuscitation is poor. While spasms
are still occurring and protecting the airway, resuscitation efforts are more likely
to succeed. Recovery is such cases may occur spontaneously."

Sticking my neck out again - re the war hero, Simon Wessely prostitutes his father's wartime experience in a similar way - could he have helped her write this?

 

[RogerBlack]

It seemed alright to me she was wanting more research into me/cfs
She should move away from things like lightning thearpy and concentrate on things like genetics and b cells ect

The problem is that she doesn't want research into any useful topic at all.
She is not capable of doing actual valuable work in genetics, autoimmune questions, ... as she lacks the qualifications.
Her calls for 'more research' are solely 'more research I can do'.
She is actually actively impeding the cause of useful research into CFS.

 

[Countrygirl]

The problem is that she doesn't want research into any useful topic at all.
She is not capable of doing actual valuable work in genetics, autoimmune questions, ... as she lacks the qualifications.
Her calls for 'more research' are solely 'more research I can do'.
She is actually actively impeding the cause of useful research into CFS.

Spot on, @RogerBlack

 

[Ember]

Persevering in the face of the objections of others is not, in and of itself, necessarily a good thing. You have to be aware of what the objections are in order to judge.

The chilling thing is that she never mentions the nature of her trial, what was being tested, or the basis of her detractors' objections.

Mentioning detractors’ objections to forcing vulnerable children to exceed their safe limits would evoke her own trauma story with its moral: “Children shouldn’t be forced to be brave.”

 

[TreePerson]

Mentioning detractors’ objections to forcing vulnerable children to exceed their safe limits would evoke her own trauma story with its moral: “Children shouldn’t be forced to be brave.”

Yes. Extraordinary really that she doesn't consider this or that The Lightning Process involves children potentially denying their own experience. Saying they're fine when they're not.

Her childhood trauma at the hands of her father is also interesting as it could colour her interactions with parents. I know there have been complaints from families that they have been falsely accused of FII or MSBP. Does she see herself as rescuing children from their parents?

 

[Countrygirl]

I understand that this is her grandfather.

The story, however, doesn't quite fit her account. In the video she says her grandfather selflessly gave up his place at Oxford to serve his country. Not correct, according to this article! He went to Oxford and graduated.

He certainly was a war hero though and has written a book about his adventures in the RAF called We landed by moonlight.

Here is the account: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Verity

 

[Alvin2]

I understand that this is her grandfather.

The story, however, doesn't quite fit her account. In the video she says her grandfather selflessly gave up his place at Oxford to serve his country. Not correct, according to this article! He went to Oxford and graduated.

He certainly was a war hero though and has written a book about his adventures in the RAF called We landed by moonlight.

Here is the account: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Verity

If this is confirmed as her grandfather someone should mention this to TED. There may be some detail that she is referring to and this is a trap meant to discredit us but is she that clever?

 

[Ember]

In a typhoon? And all she remembers is lying calmly on the seabed looking up? How did they rescue her? Sounds more like a swimming pool drama. Perhaps I'm being overly churlish, but I nearly drowned in a rip tide just a few yards from shore when I was twelve, and although I accept it was a different situation the difference between that experience and what Dr Crawley describes strikes me as weird.

I had the same near-death, riptide experience @Deepwater as an adult when I should have known better.

Being swept out to sea in a typhoon and remembering “very clearly being on the bottom of the sea floor, looking up what felt like miles to the sky” doesn’t sound credible. But the tale advances Dr. Crawley’s narrative, casting her as the predestined, career rescuer and victim (never the persecutor) acting for children, according to her own, possibly core “false-memory-syndrome” beliefs.

 

[Mithriel]

One of my earliest memories and one I know was mine, not from a photo or story, is of falling into the sea. I was no more than three, probably younger, but the bank I was sitting on must have crumbled. I remember movement and then looking up at this gorgeous, beautiful colour, everything peaceful and still. I was pulled out to great panic, it could only have been moments. A few years later I was given a paintbox and there was the colour, turquoise.

 

[Deepwater]

One of my earliest memories and one I know was mine, not from a photo or story, is of falling into the sea. I was no more than three, probably younger, but the bank I was sitting on must have crumbled. I remember movement and then looking up at this gorgeous, beautiful colour, everything peaceful and still. I was pulled out to great panic, it could only have been moments. A few years later I was given a paintbox and there was the colour, turquoise.

I hear what you're saying, but you were just by the edge in what I imagine were reasonably calm conditions with adults right by.
I think the peaceful feeling must be due to lack of oxygen to the brain. I remember being rather spaced out and surprisingly calm as I was thrust around in the water as if in a washing machine, and imagining, with slight regret, that I was about to enter the sort of glittery nothing-happening heaven I'd been brought up to believe in. I found afterwards that my head had been thrown onto the seabed so violently that my hair was loaded with sand and gravel I had small stones down my ears.
I just suspect EC has exaggerated whatever happened to her. What parent or grandparent would take a kid swimming in the open sea in an actual typhoon? And how easy would it be to rescue someone in time, down on the seabed, far out (she says she swam too far out), in those conditions?

 

[RogerBlack]

I just suspect EC has exaggerated whatever happened to her. What parent or grandparent would take a kid swimming in the open sea in an actual typhoon? And how easy would it be to rescue someone in time, down on the seabed, far out (she says she swam too far out), in those conditions?

Recollections as a small child are terrible, and influenced hugely by what parents or carers tell us.
It can be really hard to dig out what actually happened, as the conflated memory of what we were told and what we thought we were told and happened at age 6 (or whenever) merge with reality to form a seamless whole that you can't pick at and get at the real truth.

Recollections even as adults are fuzzy unreliable things, and just because it feels true doesn't mean it happened.

 

[Deepwater]

Recollections as a small child are terrible, and influenced hugely by what parents or carers tell us.
It can be really hard to dig out what actually happened, as the conflated memory of what we were told and what we thought we were told and happened at age 6 (or whenever) merge with reality to form a seamless whole that you can't pick at and get at the real truth.

Recollections even as adults are fuzzy unreliable things, and just because it feels true doesn't mean it happened.

Esther was eleven, for heaven's sake.
I wouldn't know about conflated memories, and my own memory before ME was abnormally good and accurate. My mum pulled me out as she came down to call me in for lunch and found me drowning just feet away. She told me not to tell my Dad as he wasn't well and she didn't want to worry him, so obviously I couldn't tell my brother either. She blamed her wet skirt on a wave crashing on to the beach.
I'd managed to stand up each time the wave finished, but the next one knocked me down before I could get to shore - I didn't know to try going sideways - and I was weaker and slightly further out each time, and the last time I couldn't get properly to my feet I was so weak, and when I was knocked over again I knew that was my last chance gone.
I remember about the hair and ears as I just had to wash my hair as soon as I got back to the holiday apartment. I was just with my dad - mum and brother must have gone shopping - and the wash basin was filling up with gravel and I was really scared it would block the pipes but I couldn't tell my dad what was going on.
Sometimes in later years my mum would refer to the incident and tell me how terrified she'd been, but she didn't know those details, no one did. It's those kind of odd things that stick, and it's not something I'd use to grab an audience's attention.

 

[Ember]

The problem is that she doesn't want research into any useful topic at all....
Her calls for 'more research' are solely 'more research I can do'.

Recollections even as adults are fuzzy unreliable things, and just because it feels true doesn't mean it happened.

Couldn’t available methods be retooled to help us treat "false-memory-syndrome" beliefs?