Unintentional Overmethylation!

[GreenMachineX]

I’ve been taking the only a couple multivitamins (Thorne 2 a day, LEF 2 per day) and I thought all was fine until recently my doctor told me to increase my b’s, so I bought Methyl-Guard Plus, and the nightmare begins.

I had no idea what was happening and ended up in the ER twice. I eventually figured out what was happening so I stopped all the vitamins (and all addition supplements) and ended up in a histamine overload state, couldn’t breathe at all and right back in the ER. Now I’m stuck between over- and under- and don’t know what to do next. The undermethylation problem dawned on me last night and a gram of vitamin C and some peppermint tea calmed down at least the breathing difficulties and I slept (kind of).

Today, I took 1g of vitamin C and just 1 cap of Thorne’s Basic Nutrients 3 (not the recommended 6 caps) with breakfast and still had high histamine symptoms that built until a super strong cup of mint tea with another gram of C and right back into overmethylation! I rode it out until it got too bad about an hour ago and took 500mg taurine and 50mg niacin. This calmed it down a little, but I may need another 50my niacin to sleep.

Other supplements I’ve used the past year that may have masked overmethylation/undermethylation problems:
Agmatine
Citrulline
Maca
Ashwagandha
Rhodiola
ZMA
Taurine
Theanine
Valerian
Lemon Balm
Extra Magnesium, C, D, Zinc
Ubiquinol
Jarrow Sleep Optimizer (melatonin, valerian, tryptophan, lemon Balm, hops)

I think that’s it. My memory of the past 3 weeks is a bit shot, but I’m pretty sure this kicked off when I stopped using agmatine at some point, but I can’t remember why I stopped. Does that make sense that it could hold overmethylation off?

What can I do to get back to baseline? I’m not trying to increase methylation at all, I just want to feel well enough for a while before starting that process. Is there a good multi that addresses enough of the B’s and everything else without going overboard? I only took 166mcg MTF, 75mcg b12, and 1.6mg b6 in that multi single cap today! I don’t know what to do. I struggle with anxiety issues and crazy blood pressure spikes in all this, so I can’t help but wonder, are the states of over- or under- methylation dangerous in the short term? I feel like I might stroke out in the over-!

I’m prescribed 125mcg Synthroid (just changed back from Nature-Throid which I believe was giving me palpitations)
25mg losartan
1.25mg bisoprolol
120mg testosterone cyp per week

I also have clonidine .1mg that my doctor wants me to switch to from the bisoprolol, but I’m apprehensive for whatever reason, even though I’m sure it’s better for anxiety.

Throughout all this, I’m pretty sure at different time, 500mg agmatine turned off an overmethylation “attack”, and another time 500mg sea salt stopped one. Does that make sense?

Is it possible to just keep taking 1 cap of that multi and just use 50mg extra niacin a couple times a day to get used to it? Hoping to sleep tonight! All input welcome.

Thanks in advance.

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

See if this information and protocol from Dr. Ben Lynch helps you:
http://mthfr.net/mthfr-c677t-mutation-basic-protocol/2012/02/24/

 

[GreenMachineX]

That’s great! Thanks.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I’ve been increasing my multivitamin intake the past week and have stayed in the mildly undermethylated state mostly, until today. I took an extra 15mg p5p on top of what’s in Thorne’s Basic Nutrients III (dose was 2 caps) and in an hour was very stimulated, riding that line of too much. 2 hours into it, I took 500mg taurine and 1/4 tsp pink salt and in 30 minutes I’m so calm I’m tired, which for the lack of quantity/quality sleep last night, I should be dragging. This is all very interesting but also frustrating because I’d like to be in between the 2 states. Maybe I’ll try a bit less p5p tomorrow and if it becomes too much again, take 1/8th tsp pink salt instead.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Still figuring this out but doing so much better.

I figured out if I use 300mcg or more of Methyl-B12 I get weird skin sensitivity reactions, like my dry skin is more itchy, my beard is more prickly, etc. If I use 400mcg methylfolate or more, histamine production is ramped up, but this one I’m not as positive with as the mb12.

I’m using Life Extension’s 2 per Day which has 150mcg mb12 and 200mcg methylfolate, and 37.5 mg b6/p5p which seems to do the trick for me. But, I’m still having insomnia issues. Maybe I’m still getting too much b6? I’ve recently stopped using Jarrow’s Sleep Support which has 300mg tryptophan and 300mcg melatonin plus other relaxing herbs, but I wonder if over the past year I’ve been using both products, I was ramping up methylation during the day (felt great, endless energy, etc) and using that product at night turned off that methylation overdrive without realizing what was going on?

I’m also going through ketogenic-adaptation which also gives me insomnia so I’m not really sure what’s doing what. But, I do think I read tryptophan can counter overmethylation but I cannot find where I read that.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Here we go again. Except this time, the overmethylation (if that's what it is) doesn't stop. I've even off any b vitamins for 3 days and still dealing with overmethylation or overstimulation. The insomnia is unbearable and I'm rapidly losing weight.

 

[Tannukchhina]

Here we go again. Except this time, the overmethylation (if that's what it is) doesn't stop. I've even off any b vitamins for 3 days and still dealing with overmethylation or overstimulation. The insomnia is unbearable and I'm rapidly losing weight.

How are you now?????

 

[Tannukchhina]

Did niacin helped you with insomnia and reducing methylation?

 

[GreenMachineX]

How are you now?????

That mess has improved, but I've opened pandora's box and a new mess has been opened. I now oscillate between b12 and folate deficiencies, or too much folate resulting in overstimulation/insomnia/anxiety, and now have constant reflux symptoms (oddly no acid reflux though), and other bizarre symptoms. I can't find the balance between folate and b12 and everyday I have to decide which symptoms I'm okay dealing with.

But, for the most part, I'm sleeping better then I was when I posted that previous post. I wasn't sleeping at all then. I average 5-8 hours now with about 2-4 wakeups.

I don't know what to do next.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Did niacin helped you with insomnia and reducing methylation?

Yes, niacin helped, and switching from methyl vitamins to hydroxocobalamin b12 and folinic acid for folate. But, even the folinic can Rev me up too much.

I've also figured out I'm COMT homozygous mutant which explains the overstimulation, but I don't know the fix to be able to take the amount of folate I need for healing.

 

[Tannukchhina]

Did you get niacin or niacinamide and how much?? How long did it take to get sleep??? Have you started getting deep sleep??

 

[Tannukchhina]

How much dose had helped you??

 

[Tannukchhina]

And how long your insomnia last???? and how much time it took to recovered with niacin?? Sorry I am asking a lot

 

[GreenMachineX]

Did you get niacin or niacinamide and how much?? How long did it take to get sleep??? Have you started getting deep sleep??

Plain niacin 50mg to reduce overmethylation worked pretty well, but to sleep I needed 50mg niacin, 100mg theanine and 3mg melatonin to sleep 2 hours. I did that 3 times per night when my insomnia was at its worst. The insomnia of 0-3 hours lasted 1 month, then increased b12 through eggs and supplements and reduced methylfolate and started sleeping much better. Now I don't use methylfolate, just folinic acid but have to be careful of the dose and as long as I take enough hydroxocobalamin b12 I'll sleep great. Are you struggling with sleep or overmethylation?

 

[Tannukchhina]

yes with severe insomnia since 1 month due to methyl b vitamin.... I can not sleep at all.... There is one guy who treated by using niacinamide... is it okay if i use niacinamide instead of niacin to treat overmethylation???? Could you sleep at all like at all.... I was a heavy sleeper but now no sleep drive nothing my eyes do not get shut

 

[Tannukchhina]

is it okay if i use both niacin and niacinamide.... The dose which is avaiable is 500 mg which is a lot... it is hard to find low dose naicinamide

 

[GreenMachineX]

yes with severe insomnia since 1 month due to methyl b vitamin.... I can not sleep at all.... There is one guy who treated by using niacinamide... is it okay if i use niacinamide instead of niacin to treat overmethylation???? Could you sleep at all like at all.... I was a heavy sleeper but now no sleep drive nothing my eyes do not get shut

Niacinamide did not work for me. I don't know the reason, but plain flushing niacin works the best for this. 50mg niacin tablets can be found online. I would take 50mg and wait a couple hours, and repeat until symptoms resolved up to 150mg niacin in a day. I forgot to mention Nootropics Depot Lemon Balm helped as well. Do you know if you have COMT mutation? And do you have hydroxocobalamin form of b12?

 

[Tannukchhina]

Niacinamide did not work for me. I don't know the reason, but plain flushing niacin works the best for this. 50mg niacin tablets can be found online. I would take 50mg and wait a couple hours, and repeat until symptoms resolved up to 150mg niacin in a day. I forgot to mention Nootropics Depot Lemon Balm helped as well. Do you know if you have COMT mutation? And do you have hydroxocobalamin form of b12?

Will my insomnia due to methyl b viatamins get treated permanently or as long as I am taking niacin????

 

[Tannukchhina]

Will my insomnia due to methyl b viatamins get treated permanently or as long as I am taking niacin????

150 mg dose can be harmful for liver?

 

[GreenMachineX]

Will my insomnia due to methyl b viatamins get treated permanently or as long as I am taking niacin????

I think permanently, unless you are an overmethylator naturally.

150mg niacin isn't harmful, but I've seen others say that time release niacin might be, and taking repeated doses would have the same effect I think as time release. I'm not a doctor though, just my thoughts and experiences.