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Two strong contrasting arguments on Leaky Gut theory - opinions?

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Fogbuster, Dec 30, 2013.

  1. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Senior Member

    Argument For:

    Normal gut flora maintains gut wall integrity through protecting it, feeding it and insuring normal cell turnover. When the beneficial bacteria in the gut are greatly reduced, the gut wall degenerates. 9,10,21,25 At the same time various opportunists, when not controlled by damaged good bacteria, get access to the gut wall and damage its integrity, making it porous and “leaky”. 6,28,29 For example, microbiologists have observed how common opportunistic gut bacteria from families Spirochaetaceae and Spirillaceae due to their spiral shape have an ability to push apart intestinal cells braking down the integrity of the intestinal wall and allowing through substances which normally should not get through. 13, 25 Candida albicanshas this ability as well. Its cells attach themselves to the gut lining literally putting “roots” through it and making it “leaky”.31 Many worms and parasites have that ability as well. 9,10,35Partially digested foods gets through the damaged “leaky” gut wall into the blood stream, where the immune system recognises them as foreign and reacts to them. 36,37.38 This is how food allergies or intolerances develop. So, there is nothing wrong with the food. What is happening is that foods do not get a chance to be digested properly before they are absorbed through the damaged gut wall. So, in order to eliminate food allergies, it in not the foods we need to concentrate on, but the gut wall. In my clinical experience, when the gut wall is healed many food intolerances disappear.

    Argument against:

    Both are incredibly convincing and interesting theories and I was wondering what anyone else's view is and which makes more sense to you?
  2. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    No idea about those specific arguments, but there does seem to be lots of good research showing the importance of gut flora/bacteria for a range of health problems... and there also seems to be a lot of quackery in this area too.

    Personally, I'd be really wary about seeking treatments based upon these ideas at the moment, and avoid things lacking in a good evidence base... it's easy to make things sound sciencey, without them having good supporting evidence.
    Jon_Tradicionali likes this.
  3. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    What if they are both wrong? What if they are both right, or mostly right, for subgroups?

    There are far more theories about leaky gut than these two. Leaky gut as bacteria or large molecules crossing into the blood is just wrong, and is why mainstream docs ignore it. Unfortunately that leads many docs to not consider smaller molecules crossing into the blood, including molecules that can easily pass through cell walls without transporters. The resident macrophages and other immune cells in the gut should eliminate these, but the blood from the gut goes to the liver via the portal vein. There the mass of immune cells, mostly macrophages I think, clean it further.

    For leaky gut to be an issue, in my view, first stuff has to cross into the blood, and the gut and liver immune/detox process has to fail. Only then does it get into circulation.

    However I suspect molecules like lipopolysaccharides (LPS from bacteria in the gut) can induce immune responses even before going through the liver.

    Several studies have shown elevated LPS in CFS patients (not sure if ME criteria were used) and so there is not much doubt that some kind of poisoning is coming from the gut, though in theory any bacterial infection in the body could be making and releasing LPS.

    However the theory is not particularly relevant. Do the treatments help YOU? A treatment might work for someone else, but its the individual patient response that matters.
  4. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    I don't think there is any debate as to whether leaky gut (or intestinal hyperpermeability, to give it its proper name) exists. It is a pretty much accepted phenomenon in science, as far as I can see. Leaky gut involves a dysfunction of the tight junctions that bind together the epithelial cells in the inner lining of the gut. There are dozens of studies into intestinal hyperpermeability to be found on PubMed. Some factors known to cause intestinal hyperpermeability are given in this post (and Candida is not amongst them).

    However, note that leaky gut is not that same as leaky gut syndrome. The latter is the idea that a leaky gut can lead to symptoms or precipitate disease, and that is much more controversial, and largely unproven (and it is also an area beleaguered with numerous unproven claims from alternative medical practitioners).
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
    Beyond and helen1 like this.
  5. Beyond

    Beyond Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!

    Murcia, Spain
    The first argument is pretty OK, the second I couldn´t even finish it. No, because I´ve read many studies showing that even chronic stress causes loss of gut integrity and that has been my personal experience to make it more clear. So get this, not only imbalanced microbiota causes intestinal inflammation and loss of mucosal functionality, but also things like getting bullied for years or getting vaccines loaded with aluminum salts (with the proper genetic background) will cause "leaky gut".

    One scenario will lead to "depression" and the other to "autism" (with the proper age and genetics, again). In both Major Depressive Disorder and Autism is found loss of mucosal barrier integrity. Not to say leaky gut is the cause of depression or autism, but they are important etiological factors.

    See, in the microvilli of the intestines there are digestive enzymes, but not only that, they also have to do with bile salts and fat absorption. A damaged microvilli leads to tons of defficiencies, and steatorreha is often the first sign to be noticed in malabsorption. Leaky gut syndrome is suspected to be the cause of Crohn´s in many cases. I can attest that, it´s been now 2 years without consistent success in healing my gut and I have progressed from asymptomatic to feeling the lesions in my ileum.

    So that´s why the guy in the first text says that curing the epithelium means improving digestion. Also, I cannot say that these cheap explanation of online quacks are allright but do a search in google scholar with intestinal permeability or even leaky gut and autoimmunity and you´ll see why these quacks talk about LGS being the precursor of many autoimmune diseases. Hell, the other day I read a scientific paper that admitted that everything points to the fact that Diabetes 1 is caused at least in part by "leaky gut".`

    PD: Now you know the secret. When someone harms you emotionally they are also harming you physically, especially if the suffering/stress is delayed in time or it is acute and shocking. It screws your HPA axis and the gut barrier. This all sheds a new light on my extensive experience with abusive people. I have new reasons to hate them. That hate does not consume me, it fuels my recovery along with hope for finding better people.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013

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