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Tryptophan/Kynurenine Pathway in Fibromalgia and ME/CFS

Messages
516
Someone suggested that pathway in a thread of mine. All sources considered, straight tryptophan does appear a bad idea to me. I figure its safest use is to balance out a low-tryp food source such as gelatin used before bed. 500mg is about the amount in a scoop of whey. Melatonin is likely the least harmful in the short term.

There's another aspect, I first read about in the PHD: http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/09/curing-arthritis-and-depression-with-diet-and-antibiotics/
Tryptophan sequestration is a primary intracellular defense against bacterial infections, and bacterial theft of tryptophan from serotonin also tends to denude infected cells of serotonin. We regard serotonin deficiency symptoms as prima facie evidence for a bacterial infection of the brain. C. pneumoniae is the most common bacterial pathogen in the brain, so antibiotic strategies that are proven against C. pneumoniae are a good place to start against depression.
Goes too far in my limited opinion but usually his research has some backing.
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,875
my doc now tests kynurenic acid levels. this is an excerpt from article:
http://www.nature.com/articles/srep26192

i think what happens in HIV infection is partly happening to us:


"the accumulation of metabolites produced during tryptophan catabolism is characteristic of HIV infected patients, compared with SLE and CDADt+ patients and healthy controls. Emerging data suggest that the excess of tryptophan degradation in HIV-infected patients results from the induction of IDO-1 (present in dendritic cells and macrophages of the mucosa) by a local pro-inflammatory environment or possibly as a result of the presence of some bacteria9,11. There is increasing awareness that the excess kynurenine might negatively affect different processes that are key to mucosal immunity9, and induction of this pathway is being repeatedly linked with adverse clinical outcomes22,23,24,25,26. It is therefore plausible that the human enzyme responsible for the degradation of tryptophan is induced in HIV patients by components of the gut microbiota. In addition, gut bacteria might contribute to the amount of kynurenine in the mucosa and the gut environment by assimilating and accumulating it (and its degradation products) inside bacterial cells. Thus, gut bacteria might impact the availability of kynurenine in the gastrointestinal tract, thereby decreasing its effects in mucosal and systemic immunity9. Interestingly, kynurenine degradation products accumulated at higher levels among immunological ART responders (Table 1). As the kynurenine pathway is at the crossroads of metabolism and immunity and plays a crucial role in the establishment of inflammation while also playing an opposing role in the control of acute and chronic infections26,27, these data indicate that bacterial communities are key players in the maintenance of not only chronic inflammation in chronic HIV infection but also possibly in immune recovery."
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,875
i tried to find out what happens when HIV patients are given fecal transplants - do their sCD14 go down? but i only found one study recruiting for this and no publications.
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,875
What test specifically does she/he do? Is that a urine test?
i didn't give any urine. i gave only blood and stool. ..but i am pretty sure its a blood test


edit: on second thought, maybe i gave urine and don't remember. because it looks like Great Plains lab does it with urine
 

SwanRonson

Senior Member
Messages
300
Location
Alabama
I wish there were stats on how many CFS people had a disrupted FUT2. I'm a non-secretor myself and it just seems that a disrupted or unbalanced gut biome is our lot in life. We find a few bacteria that work for us in the early years when we are young. Then something happens and that mix changes to great harm.

Who knows what the original mix was.
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,875
my doc just tested quinolinic acid and ammonia too due to my brain fog not really improving much (as well as kynurenic acid, stool analysis, sCD14 as usual)

most of the papers about this topic are unreadable for me in my present state ..i wish someone could explain this in detail.....as it appears very important with regards to neuroinflammation.

my doctor also told me to take zeolite.

i read some lyme boards and did come across someone with "lyme" saying that her brain fog finally improved years after starting this product. i imagine it helps ammonia levels.
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,875
I wish there were stats on how many CFS people had a disrupted FUT2. I'm a non-secretor myself and it just seems that a disrupted or unbalanced gut biome is our lot in life. We find a few bacteria that work for us in the early years when we are young. Then something happens and that mix changes to great harm.

Who knows what the original mix was.
absolutely. my mothers family has mental illness and anxiety...my fathers family has bowel disease. i was not breastfed, born via c-section, and had repeated ear infections as a child and given loads of antibiotics. seems i was ripe for some kind of disease.
 

SwanRonson

Senior Member
Messages
300
Location
Alabama
my doc just tested quinolinic acid and ammonia too due to my brain fog not really improving much (as well as kynurenic acid, stool analysis, sCD14 as usual)

most of the papers about this topic are unreadable for me in my present state ..i wish someone could explain this in detail.....as it appears very important with regards to neuroinflammation.

my doctor also told me to take zeolite.

i read some lyme boards and did come across someone with "lyme" saying that her brain fog finally improved years after starting this product. i imagine it helps ammonia levels.

What is zeolite? This? https://www.zeolite.com/