Trial By Error, Continued: Why has the PACE Study’s “Sister Trial” been “Disappeared” and Forgotten?

[Cheshire]

Here's a gem:
"… how parents handle illness in families can also be important. I remember as a child if I suggested to my mother that I thought I should have a day off school because I felt unwell, she would simply give me my bag and push me out the door. You can see that that might influence the way I deal with physical symptoms in later life."

Oh my... I watched this video yesterday, and I forgot how shitty it is...

This simple sentence is so bad! The "blame the mother" game again. The feeling of superiority towards sufferers. How immature.
And how does he dare pushing such an incredibly simplistic model? Overprotective mothers as an explanation for what we suffer? It's just insane. And all that relying on just nothing! Is there a single study to prove that?
All that with the tone of someone explaining things to a 5 yo.
Disgusting.

I hope all these pontificators will be exposed.

 

[Bob]

He seems to talk about his mother rather a lot, and how she was cold, uncaring and lacking in empathy. His childhood experiences are clearly still prominent in his consciousness. Perhaps some unfulfilled childhood needs are troubling his psyche, which unconsciously directed him towards medicine and are causing him to play out his childhood traumas in his adult life but with him in the position of authority, inflicting the same sort of uncaring unempathetic pain upon patients. I'm not an expert in psychopathy, but I think people with sociopathic tendencies probably fair better in life if they have warm, loving, fair and structured childhoods. Edit: he mentions his grandmother too.

 

[Woolie]

@Bob, I wondered the same thing! Just after the bit about his mum shoving him out the door as a kid when he was unwell, he then moved straight onto to traumatic childhood experiences - what an unfortunate juxtaposiiton!

 

[Sidereal]

Luckily for him, he only had a cold when his ma shoved him out the door. A child with ME with that kind of mother is guaranteed to get sicker, possibly bedridden.

 

[MeSci]

Oh my... I watched this video yesterday, and I forgot how shitty it is...

This simple sentence is so bad! The "blame the mother" game again. The feeling of superiority towards sufferers. How immature.
And how does he dare pushing such an incredibly simplistic model? Overproective mothers as an explanation for what we suffer? It's just insane. And all that relying on just nothing! Is there a single study to prove that?
All that with the tone of someone explaining things to a 5 yo.
Disgusting.

I hope all these pontificators will be exposed.

That's odd. The usual childhood explanation for ME is that we had an emotionally-unsupported, traumatic childhood (which mine was). This man seems to be arguing the opposite case.

 

[A.B.]

It's funny that this passes as science and medicine. It's absurd quackery and theorizing.

 

[SOC]

That's odd. The usual childhood explanation for ME is that we had an emotionally-unsupported, traumatic childhood (which mine was). This man seems to be arguing the opposite case.

That's the way they play the game. The patient cannot win. They argue both sides to their benefit. If your parents were gentle and kind, they messed you up by being overprotective. If your parents were calm and phlegmatic, they messed you up by being too cold. They can fit any family they find into a pathological frame of their own construction. You could have the most emotionally healthy family on the planet and they can find a way to stuff it into one of their pathological constructions -- too close, too distant, too warm, too cold, too big, too small, changed location too much, changed location too little. The list goes on and on. Since they don't seem to need logic or evidence to draw their conclusions, everything is up for grabs in their world.

Bolton is particularly disturbing in his willingness to his proclaim own superiority. "My mother didn't coddle me, so I'm emotionally healthy, unlike you." Sorry Bolton, you're not superior to the rest of us. As for Mom pushing you out the door -- my parents believed that all illness was unreal and never ever supported their children "giving in" to sickness. And guess what -- some of us are healthy adults and some are not, just like every other family. No pattern there, my friend.

 

[Chrisb]

I am sure most of us are familiar with this, but for any who are not:

"I found that those of my friends who were admirers of Marx, Freud and Adler, were impressed by a number of points common to these theories, and especially by their apparent explanatory power. These theories appeared to be able to explain practically everything that happened within the fields to which they referred. The study of any of them seemed to have the effect of an intellectual conversion or revelation, opening your eyes to a new truth hidden from those not yet initiated. Once your eyes were thus opened you saw confirming instances everywhere; the world was full of verification of the theory. Whatever happened always confirmed it. Thus its truth appeared manifest; and unbelievers were simply people who did not want to see the manifest truth; who refused to see it, either because it was against their class interest, or because of their repressions which were still "un-analysed" and crying out for treatment.

The most characteristic element in this situation seemed to me the incessant stream of confirmations, of observations which "verified" the theories in question; and this point was constantly emphasised by their adherents........... The Freudian analysts emphasised that their theories were constantly verified by their "clinical observations". As for Adler I was much impressed by a personal experience. Once in 1919, I reported to him a case which to me did not seem particularly Adlerian, but which he found no difficulty in analysing in terms of his theory of inferiority feelings, although he did not even see the child. Slightly shocked I asked him how he could be so sure. "Because of my thousand fold experience, he replied; whereupon I could not help saying ;"and with this new case, I suppose, your experience has become thousand-and-one-fold."

Plus ca change... and all that.

The quotation is from Karl Popper, Conjectures and Refutations.

Somehow it seems to make it worse that these ideas were disseminated in London University sixty or so years ago.

 

[A.B.]

Funny how psychoanalysis is supposedly dead and Freud discredited. Popper's words apply just as much to modern behaviourist theories.

It's still a belief system that has no connection to the real world. They still believe that are able to somehow know things with certainty that nobody can actually prove to be true. And with that comes a sense of conviction and superiority that makes them blind to any problems arising from their beliefs.

They remain believers even in the absence of any decent results. They "know" that the poor results are due to defects of patients, not wrong models and approaches.

 

[BurnA]

How embarrassing for them.

Unfortunately I don't think they are in the slightest bit embarrassed. That are probably laughing their heads off about how they succeeded in convincing so many people that ME is a psychological illness. Meanwhile they get paychecks from insursnce companies.
Why would they be embarrassed at all ? You are assuming they have integrity.

 

[Woolie]

That's odd. The usual childhood explanation for ME is that we had an emotionally-unsupported, traumatic childhood (which mine was). This man seems to be arguing the opposite case.

I think they don't have any evidence-supported causal model, so when it comes to suggesting causes, they just throw a lot of mud and hope some of it will stick.

 

[Chrisb]

Unfortunately I don't think they are in the slightest bit embarrassed. That are probably laughing their heads off about how they succeeded in convincing so many people that ME is a psychological illness. Meanwhile they get paychecks from insursnce companies.
Why would they be embarrassed at all ? You are assuming they have integrity.

One must never forget the words of Bernie Ecclestone.

"First you get on, then you get rich, then you get honest."

 

[alex3619]

All that with the tone of someone explaining things to a 5 yo.

Five-year-old play-science?